Canadian Heritage Committee on June 14th, 2022

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Finally—and I thank the committee for its patience—if an online entity or online undertaking were in the Bahamas or Barbados, where there might not be the same strict adherence to accurate filings of revenues, how could the CRTC deal with a situation like that, or would it be hamstrung? Does this not mean that this is a significant loophole that would in many ways undermine the whole principle of having a level playing field in Canada?

[Thomas Owen Ripley]

The goal here, as I understand it from Mr. Nater, and the point of reference is revenues in Canada. That will be an important reference point for streaming services because, for example, their financial contributions to the system are likely to be considered in reference to things like their revenues that are earned in Canada.

The government has always expressed optimism that with respect to the big household names that operate in Canada, if the bill is adopted, we would have their co-operation as the CRTC starts to implement it in terms of providing the kind of information here. If ever there were an instance in which there was a service that, to your question, played hardball and claimed that it didn't have any revenues in Canada, etc., then that is a question on which the CRTC would have to make a determination with respect to whether it would start engaging in court proceedings to be able to exercise the powers of the court to compel that kind of information.

With respect to the big services, again, our expectation is that they are good corporate citizens who, if the bill is passed, will work to comply with their legal obligations.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much for your answers. Given those answers, the fact that we're not dealing with individuals and the fact that there are foreign entities that can claim smaller revenues in Canada, it seems to be a massive loophole that you could drive a truck through in terms of determining the purpose of the bill, which is to try to make sure we have a level playing field in Canada, so I'll be voting against this amendment.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Thank you, Mr. Ripley, for your explanations, which are always relevant.

Madam Chair, I'm going to propose a subamendment. I think it's too restrictive to define an amount. The market varies, and there are many factors that would influence this threshold that I don't think we can define in the legislation.

So I propose a subamendment, which would go like this, “that this Act not—”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Champoux, we have an amendment already on the floor from Ms. Thomas that we have not voted on.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, we established earlier that the subamendment was incorporated into the original amendment. So we have unanimous consent to go back to the amendment. As a result, we can move a subamendment to the amendment on the table.

My proposed subamendment is: “this Act shall not apply to online businesses with revenues in Canada that do not exceed a threshold that the Commission determines”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. We want to allow for others to look at your subamendment, Mr. Champoux.

We had agreed to go to 1:30. We have two minutes left.

Could we come back to this, and I will suspend right now?

Yes, Mr. Méla.

[Philippe Méla]

I need a clarification, Mr. Champoux. Further to what you said—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair, Mr. Méla is asking me a question, but he's speaking very quietly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes. We'll—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I know. You cannot hear him.

Mr. Méla, can you speak into your microphone, please?

[Philippe Méla]

I can.

I was asking Mr. Champoux whether, at the end of his subamendment, he continues the sentence or ends it there and removes what is left.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I remove what's left.

[Philippe Méla]

Okay.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I remove the proposed amounts.

[Philippe Méla]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I would like to suspend the meeting, because we need to distribute that to everyone around the table, etc. We said we would have a hard stop at 1:30. We now have one minute to do that.

I will suspend until the next sitting.

[The meeting was adjourned at 1:29 p.m. See Minutes of Proceedings]