Evidence of meeting #36 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was shall.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
No, no, no, this is to the point of order that you demand absolute silence at all times, yet will carry on. With individuals in the back we're having a quiet conversation about strategy.
Conservative
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
It is within our rights as members to have quiet conversations. We weren't speaking. We were whispering. That's within our right as members. I know that members of the opposition frequently speak to their assistants, who are behind them. That's why our assistants are behind us. It wasn't a loud conversation. We weren't talking. Nothing could be heard.
I don't think it's reasonable, and I know this has happened on a few occasions with Ms. Thomas, that she has demanded absolute silence in this committee, which is not something that she has ever granted the rest of us.
I'm respectful of what Ms. Thomas has to say, and respectful of her time, but I also have to be respectful of the fact that we all are members of Parliament. We are all planning what happens next. We all have the opportunity to have quiet conversations on the side, whispering, as I was, with our staff.
That's something I've experienced. It's something that we've done over the past six years. To demand whisper-quiet and silence to hear a pin drop is not something that anyone would expect—
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
—and not something that Ms. Thomas grants. Ironically enough, she's talking while I'm speaking right now. It's a little rich, Madam Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Mr. Bittle. I think that's well taken. It's traditional for people to speak with their staff quietly. Could we just move on?
Ms. Thomas, I gather that you are not finished. Please continue.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you.
That was quite the gaslighting. I was being very respectful in making my point, and my colleague decided to use that point of order to attack me personally.
Chair, that was inappropriate. Shame on you for accepting that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Ms. Thomas, are you actually trying to challenge the chair on what I said? It was basically that it's traditional for people to speak to each other quietly and for people to speak to their staff in the room during committee meetings when other people are speaking. It's just that it should be quiet and not disturb anyone, and that's all I said.
Ms. Thomas, you either challenge the chair or you carry on speaking.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
I have a point of order, Madam Chair. “Gaslighting” is just a fancy way of saying “lying”, Madam Chair, and that's unparliamentary language. I don't think we engage—
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
—in that type of behaviour and I hope the honourable member retracts that comment.
It's been fairly amicable up until very recently and we've had a very productive discussion. I know this is a very controversial amendment, but I haven't done anything except point out what's going on in this room, Madam Chair, and I don't think that my reputation should be impugned. I didn't attack Ms. Thomas' reputation or credibility or anything along those lines. I hope she will withdraw her comments.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Given the terminology “gaslighting”, which is a new term, and not necessarily one we are used to, I will ask Ms. Thomas to withdraw the term “gaslighting”.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
You don't. So then, Ms. Thomas, can I ask you, then, to cede your place on the floor, if you're not going to want to listen to the chair's ruling?
Liberal
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
I would be more than happy to let my colleagues continue the conversation.
Thank you, Chair.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Right.
Mr. Bittle, are you satisfied with that, or do you still want a withdrawal from Ms. Thomas?
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
I don't want to prolong it too long, Madam Chair, but it's just a continued disrespect that we've seen throughout this process. We could move on for the purpose of this committee, but what has happened is truly uncalled for. It's not appropriate. As parliamentarians, sometimes we go too far.
I've done it before. We apologize. We move on. In the heat of something that's very controversial, that's something we do. It's something I've done. I know members at this table—