Canadian Heritage Committee on July 26th, 2022

[Justin Vaive]

Madam Chair, it's the clerk. He has about 13 seconds left.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right. If you can ask a question and get an answer in 13 seconds, Monsieur Lemire, go ahead.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

What are you looking to hear from Hockey Canada when it comes to victims who may have been too afraid to come forward?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I urge them to do everything in their power to break the culture of silence. That will ensure that not only victims, but also witnesses of misconduct are comfortable coming forward and reporting to police, or participating in any other type of investigative process.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Are you expecting Hockey Canada to make a public gesture?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I am expecting Hockey Canada to strongly encourage people to speak up in order to end sexual violence.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much. That's the end of the round, Mr. Lemire.

I will now go to Mr. Julian, for six minutes, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the minister for her remarks, which I think are very sincere.

Minister, I know you are being very sincere when you answer our questions, but it takes more than sincerity and fine words to end this crisis, as you so aptly described it. As a result of this crisis, new victims are being preyed on every single day.

It is true that Hockey Canada failed in its duty. It is also true that Sport Canada failed in its duty to protect the victims we heard about in Radio-Canada news reports, victims across a dozen or so sports, winter and summer—hockey, soccer, gymnastics and wrestling, just to name a few.

The reality is this is a crisis. People are still falling victim to sexual assault and abuse in sport. That shouldn't stand. Sport Canada should have done something years ago; it should have been more diligent and made sure that funding was tied to very strict conditions.

What do you have to say to all those people who were victims for years and are now coming forward? They were victims because Sport Canada didn't do any fact-checking, because it didn't require the 60 or so existing organizations to introduce processes to combat abuse in all forms, or to enforce zero-tolerance policies.

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I would first like to recognize the courage of everyone who reported to us, or publicly reported, the violence, abuse or sexual assaults that have taken place at all levels of sport in Canada. We have heard stories of what occurred at various levels, including local, community, provincial and national. I would like to thank everyone for speaking up.

I try every day to make these people's voices heard in my work. Since I took up this position, they are the people for whom I have put all my energy into strengthening the system and calling on all participants in sport in Canada to show leadership by taking action and putting an end to this toxic culture in order to protect athletes' safety and health. I'm going to continue doing that work throughout my term in office.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

You said that you have certain powers in connection with funding. Mr. Lemire's question about putting Hockey Canada under trusteeship is very much on point. You say that the law has to be checked.

Is the department doing that checking regarding the steps to be taken to put Hockey Canada under trusteeship?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

To date, I have not received an opinion regarding my ability, as minister, to put a federal organization under trusteeship. We can look into it to see whether it is possible. However, to my knowledge—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Are you looking into the law?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I have not yet asked to have my ability to put a sports organization under trusteeship looked into.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

If Hockey Canada doesn't meet your requirements with complete transparency, as you said, do you intend to look into the law concerning the possibility of putting Hockey Canada under trusteeship?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I intend to use all the tools available to me to compel the organizations to make the necessary changes to the culture, particularly at Hockey Canada.

I also thank the members of the committee for studying this issue and Hockey Canada's actions in connection with its management of the events of 2018. Your work is extremely important. I'm going to use all possible tools to put an end to this toxic culture at Hockey Canada and in sport.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you.

Earlier, we spoke with representatives of your department about the measures to take to combat harassment. This question was raised in connection with the unfortunate story of Sheldon Kennedy.

For 25 years, every sport organization has been expected to put an independent mechanism in place to combat harassment, and an independent procedure for people to be able to report alleged harassment. Today, we have learned that the department never verified anything.

Do you now intend to verify the information provided by all national organizations, to make sure that you no longer rely on the honour system and rely instead on actual facts? If they do not meet the requirements, they should not receive funding.

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

That is part of the discussions under way with representatives of senior management at Sport Canada. We want to see how we can strengthen Sport Canada's ability to do the necessary verifications. There are new processes in place and new ways of doing the verifications. Sport Canada will probably have to seek out new expertise in that area.

On June 12, I announced that I was going to bring in experts to make sure that the reforms we will be implementing at Sport Canada are the right ones and that we are putting the right tools and processes in place. We have to be able to do the necessary verifications within the organizations.

We also have to make sure that it is not just management's word that counts. We also have to be able to verify what is going on with athletes, coaches and senior managers.

We have to enhance Sport Canada's capacity to ensure compliance with the requirements.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Do you intend to also request more resources?

The work you're going to have to do is very important. However, it takes more resources.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Sorry, Peter, but you are out of time.

If we want to get in a full round in the next round, we'll have to be crisp. I will be stopping you in your tracks when you speak over time.

We're going to the second round, which is a five-minute round, and we begin with Kevin Waugh for the Conservatives.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to share my time with Mr. Martel.

Minister, you talked about Hockey Canada, and I'm going to give you this. I think Sport Canada has to share the blame. The person to the right of you knew what happened on June 26, 2018, and did nothing.

You can point fingers at Hockey Canada all you wish. I'm pointing fingers at Sport Canada. They could have stopped this. Yes, you pulled the funding in 2022 in June. I think the person to the right of you should have directed the minister in 2018 to do something, and it wasn't done. Sport Canada needs to own this as much as Hockey Canada and as much as gymnastics.

Canadians are looking for leadership from Sport Canada, and quite frankly, given the memo I read from Glen McCurdie to his staff at Hockey Canada, they haven't seen any leadership from Sport Canada.

I want you to comment on that.

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

The information that Sport Canada received in 2018 related to allegations of sexual wrongdoing. It was not given all the details concerning the precise nature of the allegations or events, which were subsequently revealed in the media.

At no time was Sport Canada informed of the extent of what had happened in 2018. The information provided was minimal.

Let me repeat: Sport Canada has no power to investigate, let alone investigate criminal allegations.

Sport Canada made sure that the police were aware of the case, that Hockey Canada had contacted the police, and that an investigation into the allegations was carried out.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

There's the interim report from Henein Hutchison. Have you seen the report? That is one of the conditions Sport Canada has. They need to see the interim report that was never so-called finished. Have you seen it? That's part of Hockey Canada's check box, if I can say that, to get their funding back. Have you seen the interim report?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

No, I have not received the firm's interim report.

What we requested were the recommendations made by the firm and the plan for implementing them.

To date, I have simply received information about six points relating to recommendations that were made, but I have not received the report.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Well, Hockey Canada released their statement yesterday and it's long overdue. They promised years ago that they were going to change the culture.

As to their action plan, what do you say as minister when Hockey Canada, two years ago, started an action plan that they never completed, and then we bring them to the heritage committee in June, and all of a sudden 30 days later we have an action plan? What do you say to Hockey Canada finally waking up, even though the report and action plan should have been done two years ago when they started it?