Canadian Heritage Committee on July 26th, 2022

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Playing a sport should be a positive experience for young people. The message I am sending all young people, parents, coaches and officials who are part of Canada's sports system is that all wrongdoing in sport has to be reported, whether it involves assault or abuse. It is no longer possible to remain silent when you witness such incidents. Everyone has a responsibility to put an end to it and make sure that our children and the athletes who play sports in Canada have a great experience. They must have the full benefit of everything that sport can offer for mental health, physical health and personal growth.

I am also calling on the executives of sports organizations to demonstrate leadership. The way those individuals behave, the way they report assaults or abuse and take action on an everyday basis to transform this culture, will also determine what the future of sport will be.

I also urge everyone to ask questions about—

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Minister. That's it. I'm sorry, but we've ended that particular section.

I'm going to go to Mr. Lemire, for two and a half minutes, please.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Madam Chair, it is me, Ms. Larouche, who will be speaking.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Larouche, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, we had a chance to talk after Hockey Canada officials appeared before the committee in June. What struck me at the time was that they spoke of one or two cases of rape as something trivial, saying that it also happens in society. The word “trivialized” has also been used by parents and coaches, like François Lemay in Granby, who used the word and questioned the will to change.

What strikes me today, after hearing the representatives of Sport Canada, is the divide that exists between Sport Canada's reaction and the will that motivates you. My sense is that you are determined to turn things around. You have frozen Hockey Canada's funding; that's serious. However, it is something else entirely to let accusations like that drag on for four years. The Sport Canada representatives even said that the department should have perhaps intervened, when there was no follow‑up. This is stated as a possibility, when it should have been said in definite terms.

What are you going to do, to get your job done, given the divide that exists between your will to act and Sport Canada's reaction? The divide obviously exists, and that has been demonstrated today.

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

It isn't the will that is lacking. I have told Sport Canada employees that it is my intention to change the culture in sport. Sport Canada has to be given greater capacity to assess, and follow up on, cases.

Right now, quite honestly, Sport Canada doesn't have the capacity to do these follow-ups, so it has to be given the tools. The work has been started by the deputy minister with the senior leaders—

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Minister, the representatives of Sport Canada said they should have followed up. It could have been done. The department could have gotten information about the progress of the investigation, tried to follow up more closely on what was going on. The allegations, without all the details being known, were there. That could surely have been done, even with what was available to Sport Canada at the time and with the lack of representativeness, which you also mentioned.

I also welcome the statement of the women hockey players. For a true change of culture to happen, in terms of this toxic masculinity, the board of directors absolutely has to have more women to represent that point of view and prevent there being one more victim.

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I acknowledge that we also have to do better at Sport Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 25 seconds.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

When there really is a will to change, what message are we sending about the importance of ensuring close follow‑up of cases, of taking measures and holding these people accountable? That is obviously what is missing: accountability on the part of the Hockey Canada executives.

How is it possible, now, to bring about a change of culture, given the present executives?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Larouche, we need to finish this question because we've run out of time. I think maybe the minister can try to fit it into somebody else's question.

The next person is Peter Julian, for two and a half minutes, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have two questions for you, Madam Minister.

First off, you were kept in the dark. After you became minister, you were not informed by Sport Canada about these serious allegations.

Have you directed staff at Sport Canada to keep you informed any time there are allegations of criminal activity? I'm talking about sexual assault and sexual abuse. Have you directed now to be informed when those cases come forward?

My second question is about the national equity fund. Are you aware of how many of these national sports organizations have put in place funding to compensate victims rather than putting in place every measure to prevent further victims? How many of the 60 organizations have that?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I have asked Sport Canada to keep me informed of cases reported from now on. I have no information about the number of sports organizations that might have this kind of operating fund.

I don't know whether you have that information.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

If you don't have that information, could you furnish it?

[Isabelle Mondou]

We can undertake to provide this information, for sure.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

That would be very helpful information.

Also, I understand, Madam Minister, that you are now going to be directly informed. No minister will be kept in the dark anymore about serious allegations of criminal activity. I'm happy to hear that. That is important.

I think it's fair to say that victims have been let down. They've been let down by Sport Canada over the course of, I would suggest, the last few years certainly and potentially the last couple of decades. You are certainly standing with the victims. That is important, but I think it's also important to acknowledge that Sport Canada failed at its task of making sure that we have in place safe sports and safety for athletes who could be victims, but also safety for the general public, who could be victims.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds, Peter.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Would you acknowledge today that Sport Canada fell short and has let down victims over the course of the last few years?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

The discourse around wrongdoing, abuse and sexual assault changes over time, not just in sport, but also in society in general.

Today, in 2022, we are no longer where we were in 2010 or 2000 or 1990.

In 2018, the government took serious steps to start to get a better idea of what was going on in sport in Canada. Before that, we had no information.

Concrete measures have been put in place since 2018, and I'm going to continue working to provide Sport Canada with proper tools. We will have the help of experts, who will be guiding us in this transformation, to make sure we are able to achieve it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Minister. We're out of time.

I would like the committee to know that we have five minutes left in this hour. We could split it between the Conservatives and the Liberals at 2.5 and 2.5 minutes each if you wish, or we can end the meeting now.

Anybody who does not wish to go 2.5 and 2.5 minutes, please raise your hand.

All right. Then I will go next, for two and a half minutes, to John Nater.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to follow up exactly where Mr. Julian left off. It's on the concept of accountability. I was exceptionally upset with Hockey Canada that there were no accountability measures in place. I'm equally upset that there hasn't been the same accountability with Sport Canada.

Minister, the person to your right knew of these allegations four years ago—just two weeks after then minister Kirsty Duncan made a major announcement about safe sport. He didn't even see fit to ensure that the minister, who just two weeks earlier had made this major announcement, was informed of these very serious allegations. He spent four years in possession of this information and did not inform the minister's office and did not follow up.

You made mention that you're not sure the current leadership at Hockey Canada has the right individuals to carry on, but I question you. Do you think the person sitting next to you is the right person to be leading change within Sport Canada, when we have seen his failure, and his organization's failure, to follow up on these allegations?

Where is the accountability within Sport Canada? Have you spoken to Sport Canada officials, specifically Mr. Ruest, to say that what he did for the past four years was not acceptable and that you expect more from that organization?

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

I want to point out that Sport Canada does not have the power to carry out investigations. It is also not a regulatory body. Cases like the one in 2018 involving Hockey Canada have to be dealt with by the traditional court system.

However, I do recognize that we have to improve the tools available to Sport Canada so that cases are followed up on and so that there is more accountability on the part of sports organizations. There is certainly room for improvement, as is the case in all sports.

Since 2018, however, new tools have been created and new procedures have been put in place. Sport Canada has done what it was asked to do: it has taken note of cases. It did not have the power to investigate or try those cases.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Well, no one is asking Sport Canada themselves to investigate. You just mentioned they “took note”. They took note and wrote it down on a piece of paper and nothing more happened with that. It was kept in a filing cabinet somewhere, and the Minister of Sport, who two weeks earlier had made a big deal about safe sport, wasn't even informed. They took note and then did nothing.

That's not good for anyone in the sporting community. It's not good for individuals participating. It's not good for victims. That's what happened in this case. They took note and did nothing.

Will you acknowledge that this was unacceptable? They didn't even inform the minister's office.

[Pascale St-Onge, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

These procedures absolutely have to be improved, so there is better follow‑up on cases of assault and abuse reported to Sport Canada.

We will be bringing in experts to make sure that the processes to be put in place by April 2023 enable us to do these assessments.