Canadian Heritage Committee on July 26th, 2022

[Isabelle Mondou]

If I may answer your question with a couple of points, the first point is that Sport Canada provides some financial support for secure sports to help those third parties to level that playing field. Part of the budget 2018 and 2019 gave some additional money to support safe sport, to be able to fund some of these organizations, and also to fund training, and so on and so forth.

The first requirement in 2018 was to establish this third party, and some money was allowed to help establish that. The second step I need to mention—which is maybe in answer to Mr. Julian's question in part—is that since budget 2022, $18 million has been given to an independent sport third party so that it's no longer the organization that will conduct those investigations. To address partly your question, it's going to be another independent third party. That's the question, though, and the increased measures that are taking place as of now.

I hope that addressed your question.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Yes, a little bit.

Glen McCurdie wrote to Hockey Canada on the day that he talked to your senior program analyst, Nicole Mulligan. I'll just state what he said at end of his email to Hockey Canada: “Nicole Mulligan thanked me for taking the time to make them aware, and said she had checked off all boxes with her actions to date. She commended us for our due diligence.”

That was June 26, 2018. You have to be kidding me: I mean, four years later this comes out, only because a reporter does some digging and brings this to light in April 2022. Otherwise, we would not even be here today, I would say.

How can your department check off all the boxes from what we know today happened four years ago with Hockey Canada? How can you give me a straight answer on this?

[Isabelle Mondou]

I won't comment on the recall of the person who had that conversation. Obviously, it's his recall and how he felt about the meeting. However, what I can say is that the requirement as per then minister Duncan's new implementation measure was that there be a serious investigation by a third party.

In that case, Sport Canada was informed that the case was referred to the RCMP and that there would also be some reporting, which there was. They also mentioned at the time that they were going to provide some support for the victims, and hire an independent third party in addition to the RCMP investigation.

To your question, and I think Mr. Julian's question too, about why the funding is not stopping at the moment, you want these organizations to reveal this case. You want those organizations to actually take action on that. You don't want them to try to hide it because they don't want their accounting to be found. Every organization that has an economic mechanism, whether it's the public service or the private sector, has a mechanism in place, and they want people, when there is a case—hopefully, there is never a case—to report it. Cutting the funding at that moment is not the right thing to do because, at that point, you want them to do the right thing and investigate those cases.

What was different on May 24 is that we actually learned that they didn't quite do that, and that's why the minister at the time cut the funding and imposed three conditions. The first one was the audit, but she also said that she wanted them to sign on the independent third party.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 20 seconds left.

[Isabelle Mondou]

Yes.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Yes, the OSIC.

I will say, however, there's been no follow up with this. There is no follow up with Sport Canada to the hockey or other investigations, and it's just left in the open, and here we are four years later asking questions that could have been avoided in the last three years. Maybe we would have found some answers in 2018 instead of being here today in 2022.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Kevin.

I now go to Mr. Coteau for the Liberals for five minutes, please.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to continue with the question around funding and the penalties that were put forward by the department and the minister on Hockey Canada. I know that on June 22, the minister did cut funding to Hockey Canada.

I'd like to ask the officials, what were the other penalties that were put in place? Also, are there any further sanctions that will be put in place in the future?

[Michel Ruest]

In June, we undertook a financial audit to see whether any public money had been used to settle the lawsuit. That was the first requirement, and until that audit is complete, no new funding will be approved and no funds will be provided.

Two other requirements were laid out. The second was that the organization had to become a signatory to the newly formed Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner, or OSIC. Hockey Canada announced that that would be happening soon. We'll see whether it fulfills the requirement.

Under the third requirement, Hockey Canada has to provide Sport Canada with the preliminary recommendations made by the law firm Heinen Hutchison, as well as a plan to implement the recommendations.

No funding will be paid out and no new funding will be approved until those requirements are met.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

To the actual second recommendation for, I think it was, the sport integrity commissioner, is that a choice for Hockey Canada to decide, or is it an obligation that the department will put forward?

[Michel Ruest]

It's now a condition of funding, so if Hockey Canada decided not to do so, we would not be in a position to fund them.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I want to talk about compliance for a second. I've been on both ends of the compliance process, both as an executive director of a not-for-profit and also as a minister of sport in Ontario. I know that when I was in the not-for-profit sector, we would sit down with a department consultant or official and go through our annual report, but we would also look at any types of potential—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, the interpretation has stopped.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Is it too fast for interpretation?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It's not just that it's too fast, but the line also seems to be crackling.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, may we suspend for a second, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We will resume the meeting. Michael, continue.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Chair, how much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have two minutes and 16 seconds.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

As I was saying, compliance is something that I've seen from both sides, either from the funder or the actual recipient. It's my understanding that in order to get funding—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, the interpreter is indicating that there is too much popping and static on the line.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Please suspend.

I will go to Monsieur Lemire for 2.5 minutes. Thank you.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think that time should have gone to the Liberals, and the speaking time could have been given to someone else.

Nevertheless, I'd like to know whether Hockey Canada has signed on to the program administered by the OSIC.

Mr. Ruest, you just said that Hockey Canada had not signed on, but how did you find that out?

Was it through the organization's open letter that appeared in the media, or did Hockey Canada officials inform you more directly of the organization's plans to sign on to the program administered by the OSIC?

[Michel Ruest]

Hockey Canada officials gave us confirmation that the organization planned to become a signatory.

The issue now is implementation, but no time frame has been set.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Do Hockey Canada officials notify you when they transfer money to partners for the purposes of international events?