Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 7th, 2022

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Minister, with respect, on what date was that?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Madam Chair, I'm trying to answer the question.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

It's a simple question. I'm just looking for the date.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

It was on July 19 or 20—around there.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

July 19 or 20 was even longer than was originally.... It was full month before your department took any action.

I want to go back. You said—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I wouldn't say the department didn't take any action. I think that's an unfair characterization, but I'll let you finish your question and I can respond.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

With respect, I do have the floor, Minister.

You mentioned that this “fell through the cracks”. With respect, this fell through a canyon. This isn't something that wasn't glaring with flashing lights that couldn't have been found by Google.

Who specifically in your department has been held accountable for this failure?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I want to assure the honourable member that despite the premise of his question, there was already work under way to get the details of the funding for this organization and to establish the process to terminate both the contract and the project. That was done.

In addition to that, the vetting process that was in place at the time that this project was approved clearly did not work. Obviously, that is clear to us. Our job is to ensure that not only do we terminate this contract and demand that the money be repaid, which is what we've done, but to ensure that this never happens again by putting in place robust, enhanced measures and better training and vetting.

That's why I'm here. It's to talk about those measures and to make sure committee members—

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

With respect, it sounds like no one has really been held accountable within your department.

I want to move on.

According to a media report on the Arabic-language website, annasher.com, according to Mr. Marouf, CMAC was actually invited to submit an application. They were encouraged by Heritage Canada. It went so far as to say that Heritage Canada dumped money on them.

I'd like to know who within your department contacted Mr. Marouf and CMAC to so strongly encourage them to seek out this funding.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

At the time that this project was approved in 2021, I was not the minister on the file.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Minister, with respect, you're the minister responsible, so I'm asking you.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Absolutely. If I can finish the answer—

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Who within the department reached out to CMAC and Mr. Marouf and encouraged them to apply for this funding?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

The process used to select this organization was clearly unacceptable. I can tell you, sir, that this vetting process failed.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Minister, again, I'm asking you a very simple question.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I'm trying to answer.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

No, you're not, sir.

I'm asking you who within the department sought out Mr. Marouf and CMAC and encouraged them to apply for this funding. Who was it?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I will have to get back to you on that. I'm not sure what you are referring to. You're obviously referring to a media article that you read somewhere.

I'm happy to get back to you on that. It's not something that I have come across.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Madam Chair, I would like it noted that the minister will be returning to us with the individual within the Department of Canadian Heritage who sought out CMAC to encourage them to apply for funding.

Minister, as you're aware, there's a media report that, potentially, the CRTC is still paying Mr. Marouf funding. Are you aware whether or not the CRTC is still providing funding to CMAC and/or Mr. Marouf?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

My response to your question, which is an important question, is that we are surprised and disappointed by the CRTC's decision. Funds should never go to an organization that demonstrates racism and anti-Semitism—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 30 seconds.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

—and xenophobia. Canadians really expect that this principle applies to all public and private institutions.

That is my response to you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Nater. That's it.

We now have 17 seconds left. I'm sorry. We're not going to let the Nater formula apply in this case, because the minister must leave at two o'clock.

Now we'll go to Martin Champoux for two and a half minutes—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Madam Chair, it's a Liberal round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, Mr. Housefather.