Evidence of meeting #46 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Mr. Minister, you are pulling out a tape for us. That is not what I want. I want an answer to my question. This is the committee, not the House of Commons.
Bloc
Martin Champoux Bloc Drummond, QC
Minister, you are not answering my question. I want to know if, in the training you give on anti-racism and anti-Semitism, there is a section on francophobia.
We see that this phenomenon is percolating more and more, we see it in social media. Nowhere in your program is there any mention of the hateful comments made towards francophones.
My question is simple, Minister: does the training address this problem?
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
I have stated very clearly that the hateful comments towards francophone community members by this individual, by this organization, are reprehensible.
I said this from the very beginning, and I will repeat that. Absolutely, we will make sure that the enhanced training on anti-Semitism, anti-racism, anti-discrimination and anti-hate for all program officers includes sensitivity and fighting against hatred towards francophone community members. That is a commitment I can make to you, sir.
Liberal
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you, Minister, for being here today.
I was a little concerned about your initial comments where you talked about anti-Semitism remaining a reality. I believe you are minimizing this. The police reported hate crime latest statistics actually show a significant rise in anti-Semitism, hate-motivated crimes.
What we're dealing with is not something that remains a reality. What we're dealing with is something that is becoming a greater and greater threat to our society. Anti-Semitism and anti-Semitism hate crimes are growing in this country.
In that context, I want to come back to the comments you made initially that you believed that an adequate vetting had taken place when you became the minister. Did that adequate vetting take into consideration social media accounts that date back to 2017, which clearly show a pattern of anti-Semitic slogans and comments on social media by Mr. Marouf?
Minister.
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
Mr. Julian, I would have to start my response by responding to your initial comments.
I in no way meant to suggest that anti-Semitism should not be taken seriously. Quite the contrary, in many years of my adult life I have spent time fighting anti-Semitism, fighting Islamophobia, fighting racism on the ground working with community members from various communities, so I take this extremely seriously and I would encourage you to revisit my remarks on this matter on a number of occasions. I disagree with you, with respect, sir.
On the issue of the previous processes that existed before I became minister, this funding was approved in the summer of 2021, before I became the minister responsible for this file. We trusted at that time that the adequate vetting had been completed, and, as we have said, this individual fell through the cracks and that is why I'm here today, to assure members that we're putting in place significant measures to ensure this never happens again.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Okay, thank you.
I want to come to those significant measures, because you haven't talked about a social media screen at all. That was clearly something that was a huge and significant omission from the process that was put into place.
In terms of the social media screens, what are the social media screens that are put into place as part of your new revised policy, and going beyond anti-Semitism, which, as I've mentioned, is growing, and Islamophobia is growing, racism is growing? We've heard this week about a toxic incel group, a misogynistic group that was on the leader of the official opposition's YouTube feed, “men going their own way”, MGTOW.
Does your social media screen that you're putting into place include all of those hateful signs and hashtags to ensure that this kind of thing never happens again whether we're talking about anti-Semitism or all other forms of hate?
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
Madam Chair, I'm happy to reiterate again the comprehensive vetting process and the pieces that are in it, which I've already stated, but in terms of the detailed question with respect to social media, I'll turn to associate deputy minister Khanna to provide additional content.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you, Minister.
I will ask this question then later on when we get another opportunity to put that into place.
Coming back to the timeline, in mid-July you become aware of these comments because of Mr. Housefather's intervention. It takes over a month, as a number of my colleagues have indicated. Is the delay in that due to the fact that this particular program is double-headed? You have to go to Canadian Heritage, another minister, Minister Rodriguez, to get the information that is important for you to make the decision about cancelling the contract. Is the very structure of how we have two ministers competing for one program part of the reason that there was such a delay?
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
Absolutely not. I am the minister on the file, and as soon as the issue was raised, I immediately asked my team to look into it and provide me with options, but we also asked the Department of Canadian Heritage to confirm the project funding details and to inform us on the procedural next steps.
After the review by the legal department, we followed the process in place to cut funding to the organization as well as terminate the project. We know this should not have happened, but that's why I'm here today to talk about how we have enhanced the process significantly to make sure this never happens again.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
There's obviously a problem. We have two ministers who are compiling and working in one file. When we have one minister having to get information from another department, we have a delay. In this case, it was over a month of very virulent, toxic and anti-Semitic comments basically continuing to be funded by the federal government over that period.
I don't have reassurance from the minister right now that the kind of social media screen that is so important—whether we're talking about anti-Semitism or misogyny—has been clearly put into place to stop this from happening again. That is a matter of some concern.
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
I can assure the member.... Do I have a few seconds to respond?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I'm sorry, Minister. You can get back to that. You have an hour with us.
I would now like to move to the next round, which is a five-minute round.
We will begin with the Conservatives and Rachael Thomas.
Mrs. Thomas, you have five minutes.
Conservative
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Before we start, could we just confirm that we'll have the full second round of questions, Madam Chair?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
I think we will because we tend to flow these into each other. I think we will have that time.
Conservative
John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
We'll just be sure that we do. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister, thanks for joining us.
Just to clarify, on what date did Mr. Housefather inform you of these concerns about Mr. Marouf?
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
I thank MP Housefather for bringing this individual to our attention.
The comments made by this individual are—
Conservative
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
When this issue was first raised, we immediately asked the department to look into it to confirm the details.