Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 15th, 2022

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Nicholson, in my view, you contributed to creating this toxic culture for a variety of reasons, whether good or bad.

In hindsight, it would appear that you were the architect to some degree during your mandate, including with respect to silence, inaction and dubious sources of funding.

What's the legacy of your 16 years as the head of Hockey Canada?

[Bob Nicholson]

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. That only came through in French and did not come through in English to me.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Can I get my six minutes back, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I don't know if it will be the full six minutes, Sébastien. But all right, we will let you have some extra time.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, the witness didn't hear my question and I have to repeat it. I'll go back to the start.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right. We will go back to six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I was saying that the way I see it, the toxic culture that has been condemned, and all the scandals that we have seen, those of a sexual nature of course, but also financial, probably occurred during the 16 years that you were the head of Hockey Canada. I see you as the main architect behind all that, including the culture of silence. But then I would imagine your point of view differs.

I'd like you to talk to us about your Hockey Canada legacy.

[Bob Nicholson]

I am sorry again, Madam Chair. It only is coming across in French. I'm not getting the English translation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I think that once again I will stop the clock, and I will pause and ask the clerk to please deal with this particular problem. I'll suspend the meeting until then.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I just think the witness may not be aware and he may be on the wrong channel. Could you perhaps instruct him on how to be on the English channel so that he hears the translation?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I did at the beginning.

If you look at the bottom of your screen, you will see a little round globe. If you press that, it will also give you something that asks you to choose between English and French. If you press English, you will get the French translation done in English for you.

Could you try that, and then we can try again? I have suspended the clock.

I shall resume the clock. Thank you.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Nicholson, I see you as the main architect of the Hockey Canada culture we are now aware of, for better and especially for worse. We've heard about all the financial and sexual scandals, and this whole cover-up corporate culture at Hockey Canada, which has remained silent and passive in the face of absolutely scandalous incidents.

I expect that your opinion is different. What legacy have you left after 16 years at the head of Hockey Canada?

[Bob Nicholson]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I really felt that the legacy I left was that we had way more grassroots programs to include young boys and girls to play in the game. We reached out across the country to make that happen.

Also, as I said in my opening statement, there was a merger of the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association and Hockey Canada, and both the organizations were not in a very good financial situation. I felt that we were able to look at new revenue sources and also at international events that really helped us bring finances to the table to really give back to our 13 members. Our 13 members used those dollars from international events to help build national coaching certification programs, referee certification programs, and a tremendous amount of programs that were used coast to coast in the country.

That was what I felt best about. Also, looking at the risk in—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

And yet, by creating these programs, did you never suspect that they might be used in a more malicious fashion, for example arranging the signing of all these non-disclosure agreements to buy the silence of victims?

We have learned that Hockey Canada was complicit in the non-disclosure of cases of sexual misconduct. Worse still, for decades, collusion and inaction were the organization's response when there were complaints of sexual misconduct. Hockey Canada was obsessed with the organization's image. Players from the 2018 and 2003 teams, for example, publicly declared that they had nothing to do with the alleged incidents.

What do you think of that, as the former head of Hockey Canada for 16 years?

Do you really believe that nothing happened, that you were not in any way responsible and that everything that occurred with the victims was consensual?

[Bob Nicholson]

I think one of the key things is that from the programming point of view, I thought we did a very good job. When I look at the situations when I was there...and again I'm going back to Graham James. He was convicted. We signed NDAs to protect the victims—it was as much for that as anything. After I left Hockey Canada, and the 2018...that has been investigated a lot. I can't make that comment, because I wasn't there. I'm just getting bits of information on that, as you are—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Hockey Canada claims that it is a victim of serious disinformation and cynical attacks. We heard it say so to this committee.

Do you have an opinion about the 15 cases of group sexual assault going back to 1989, the details of which have been reported in the media?

[Bob Nicholson]

When I was there.... I tried to be clear here on what we did at that time. I certainly can't make a comment on the other situations that happened when I wasn't there—I'm sorry.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

As for your role in the National Hockey League, what does the league think about your work and its own accountability? We know that it investigated the cases raised in June 2018, but the predators always went unpunished.

Can we expect the National Hockey League to do something?

If these cases involve members of your team, are you going to censure them?

[Bob Nicholson]

First of all, I can tell you that I know there's an investigation going on by the NHL. I'm not privy to the information from that. That will be dealt with at the National Hockey League office. I think that office, over the last while, has dealt with those situations as swiftly as they could.

I can tell you that if one of those players from 2018 was on the Edmonton Oilers, which there isn't, we would have to look at that very closely, get all the information and make the appropriate decision.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

We learned yesterday that Hockey Canada, the National Hockey League and its members had benefited from the federal government's largesse, having failed to file the required documents for non-profit organization status, including their administrative rules and their annual financial reports.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 50 seconds, Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Does this practice of not submitting documents date back to when you were the head of Hockey Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm afraid you only have 12 seconds to answer that question, Mr. Nicholson.