Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 15th, 2022

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

—around severance payments for Mr. Smith. How much is Mr. Smith receiving in severance for having stepped down?

[Pat McLaughlin]

Thanks for the question.

I actually report to Mr. Smith, and that would be a question for the board.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Thank you, Peter.

Now we're going to the second round.

Before we do, I would like to again repeat this for people on the floor. Please turn off your microphones or mute yourself in some way after you finish speaking or while others are speaking. The echo causes a problem for the interpreters sometimes, because there's a huge echo. Thank you.

Now we're going to the second round, which is a five-minute round. Again, the five minutes are for the question and the answer.

We'll begin with the Conservative Party and Ms. Rachael Thomas for five minutes, please.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. McLaughlin, I'm wondering if the current board of directors is in the process of choosing the next CEO.

[Pat McLaughlin]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the question.

The current board of directors will not choose the CEO. That will be at the discretion of the new board. The new board will be in place after election on December 17.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

I'm also wondering who put the five questions forward to Mr. Cromwell to investigate.

[Pat McLaughlin]

On July 12, we had meetings with the board. We invited experts on governance to come in to help our board understand what a proper and appropriate governance review could look like.

The questions were built by experts and approved by the board. Then the process was moved forward.

We were fortunate that Justice Cromwell and his team have done an outstanding job and really provided a framework and a road map for us as we move forward with our new board.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I note that in the five questions that were put forward, there was a request that he look at two of the funds, but not the third fund. In fact, the third fund wasn't even disclosed. It was something that he dug up.

Why is that?

[Pat McLaughlin]

I can't speak to why that is, but I can tell you that I'm glad that he did. I think it's outstanding.

Again, it sheds a light on what you and your colleagues have talked about, which is that in the interest of transparency and much better communication, we have a great opportunity there to be much better. The work that Justice Cromwell has done is going to lead the organization moving forward.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. McLaughlin, I would agree with you. I do think there is an opportunity to do much better.

In your opening remarks, you gave a list of a few things that the organization promised to do and has followed through on. One of them was that the organization promised to do a “full governance review” and they did that. You're pointing to the Cromwell report.

My concern, however, is that this is actually the third independent governance review since 2014. In eight years, this is the third one that has been required because adequate action hasn't been taken. The culture of secrecy and cover-up has been perpetuated for eight years despite these three independent reviews.

I'm curious. Why should the Canadian public trust you now?

[Pat McLaughlin]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the question.

I can't speak to the previous governance reviews. I can only speak to how I operate, how our staff operates and how our members operate. At the end of the day, it's all about delivery and execution.

We have a significant mandate and we need to deliver for all Canadians. There's no room for error on that. That's why I can say that we're appreciative of the work that Justice Cromwell has done.

I can tell you that on October 15 and 16, we met with our members. The members have already advanced a number of the recommendations of Justice Cromwell and his team. Further dialogue will take place this weekend. The work will be in the hands of our transition board to help lead and drive forward.

I'm very hopeful as we move forward, with respect to the work of the governance review.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Nicholson, one thing that Justice Cromwell stated in his report, on page 95, was this: “Both the [National Equity Fund] and the [Insurance Rate Stabilization] Fund are used for purposes that are not fully disclosed in the financial statements.” This phrase “not fully disclosed” speaks of secrecy, rather than transparency.

You stated that, as CEO, your goal was to make yourself transparent and financially accountable. Why didn't you fully disclose the need for this fund?

[Bob Nicholson]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for the question.

I really felt that we did disclose the information to our members.

Remember who our members were. There are 13 branches—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Nicholson, with all due respect, Justice Cromwell would disagree with you. He said that it wasn't fully disclosed.

You might feel that way, but an independent reviewer is saying that isn't the case. Why isn't it?

[Bob Nicholson]

What I recall, and [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

Mrs. Thomas's time should be stopped. Mr. Nicholson's last answer wasn't audible to us. I think he's on mute.

Perhaps he could resume his answer, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

[Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

On a point of order, Madam Chair, I think you may be able to hear us, but we can't hear anyone on Zoom.

I don't know if we can suspend perhaps for a moment. Again, I agree with Mr. Housefather that Mrs. Thomas's time should be stopped and Mr. Nicholson should be given an opportunity to answer the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

[Technical difficulty—Editor]

[The Clerk]

Dr. Fry, nobody in the room can hear you except me with my headset on.

Can you say “suspend” and I will inform the PVO?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Mrs. Thomas, we will resume. I'm giving you an extra few seconds, because this had started before we stopped the clock.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Nicholson, I'll go ahead and give you an opportunity to answer as to why you didn't fully disclose in the financial statements this fund that existed for insurance rate stabilization.

[Bob Nicholson]

Yes. I really thought we did. I don't have the financial statements in front of me, Rachael. I felt that we gave those to our members. If they're not in our financial statements that you received from Hockey Canada, then obviously they weren't given out to them.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Nicholson, in your view, though, should that be made available?

[Bob Nicholson]

Yes, it should.