Canadian Heritage Committee on Nov. 29th, 2022

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Perfect. Thank you.

I agree with adding rugby, skating and swimming.

I'm curious if Mr. Housefather can help clarify something. Right now, the status of women committee is also doing a study with regard to safe sport. I'm just wondering how we see these two committees potentially working together or being complementary in terms of this study as we proceed going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Would you like to answer that question, Anthony?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I can only say that I totally agree that we need to work together. I've let Ms. Vecchio, who's the chair of the status of women committee, know exactly what I was hoping to do, and to get the minutes. She was very supportive of that.

I hope we find a way that we do collaborate, because I think it's important for the two committees to work together and amend each other's work, and not divide it and end up duplicating things.

I'm in total agreement. I also let her know that her committee could then also use the work of our committee. If they want to see the minutes, they could ask for them too, and they would already be ready.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Right now I see two committees wanting to do really great work. Bringing forward witnesses would of course be an essential part of that process. At the status of women, some of the witnesses they have or are intending to bring forward are those who were victims.

I'm concerned about having these individuals testify at both committees, when perhaps we could accomplish both of our ends, which I actually think perhaps need to be defined. One of my questions would be whether we have a goal different from the goal of the status of women committee. Is there a way that we hold our committees together or potentially work together so that these individuals, particularly those who are victims or survivors, would only have to come once rather than twice?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I would like to suggest that we could find a way to discuss with the status of women committee how we could avoid double-victimizing victims. We could have them come at different times, perhaps. I don't know; maybe the clerk can give us an answer.

I don't think we should form a joint committee, but can we attend these committee hearings? The victims would be there in camera and we would have to be able to get permission to do that. How would we do that?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Aimée Belmore]

I can certainly do a little bit of research and come back to you with an answer on that.

I know there's a way to do a joint committee meeting. You could also simply attend each other's meetings. Any member of Parliament has the right to attend meetings. It depends on how official.... You can also pass motions to allow the evidence and documents given from one committee to be used in another committee's report.

Those are a few avenues, but I can certainly undertake to do more research.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It would be good if you could give us that information.

However, I need to point out, Mrs. Thomas, that we have a mandate for this study. It was agreed on quite a while ago.

Mr. Housefather is just putting forward a motion with regard to the already agreed upon mandate to study safe sport, which this subcommittee and full committee had agreed to.

Go ahead, Martin.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I find Ms. Thomas' question extremely relevant. There are a lot of sensitive aspects to this issue. The motion on the table only asks for the minutes of the sports organizations and federations. At this stage, what we want are the minutes. We will then determine what we need to do based on what we find. It will be up to the committee to follow up.

I think at that point it will be very important to do it in collaboration with the Standing Committee on the Status of Women because of the sensitivity of the subject matter and the people who will be called to testify.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Marilyn.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Maybe I can shed some light.

When I was chair of status of women, we were looking into the sexual misconduct in the military at the same time that the defence committee was looking into the same subject. We were very clear about our scope, in terms of determining what needed to be done to better support survivors. The defence committee was looking at what changes were needed in the CAF to address it.

I think that as long as we are clear on what our objective is and they are clear on theirs, we did agree to then share the witness testimony jointly between committees in order to minimize the trauma to those survivors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Before I go to Michael Coteau, Clerk, do we have the original motion wherein the committee agreed to do the study? Would that have a clear mandate in it?

[The Clerk]

The original motion was to look into Hockey Canada. The subsequent motion was to look into safe sport in Canada, which was passed on September 20. I can read out to you if you wish.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Please do.

[The Clerk]

If you will please bear with me, I just need to load that particular—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

With regard to what Marilyn said, if we know what our mandate is and what FEWO's mandate is, we can come up with a decision on how we don't duplicate.

I want to add that my concept of a safe sport study wasn't only about sexual harassment. It was about bullying and it was about.... I have spoken to many people in gymnastics who told me that they suffered from anorexia because they were always bullied into feeling that they had put on a pound or two. There is a huge amount of stuff to go into, rather than just sexual misconduct.

[The Clerk]

Thank you for your patience. The motion that was adopted, which enlarged and expanded the original mandate of the committee, was:

That the committee's study of Hockey Canada's involvement in alleged sexual assaults committed in 2018 be expanded to include all matters related to the administration of Hockey Canada and other national sporting federations; and that the title of the study be amended to “Safe Sport in Canada”.

That's the entirety of the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right. This sounds like it's about the administration of these groups—Hockey Canada and the others.

Go ahead, Michael.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

I'm okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Peter, do you wish to say anything?

Actually, it does look like orange now, Peter. There's a change in light behind you.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Absolutely, Madam Chair. If I invite the committee to my living room, that's what they'll see: bright NDP orange everywhere.

I think we've come to a consensus. I certainly agree with the comments around working with the status of women committee as well, and I think the comments were well founded from every member of the committee. I hope that this information will be useful to determine the next steps in our study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Now if we have no further hands up, I would like us to vote on the amendment. Is there anyone opposed to the amendment from Mr. Champoux?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now we're going to vote on the amended Housefather motion. Is anyone opposed?

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Thank you very much.

Now we will proceed to the business of the day.

I would like to note that present in the room is Mr. Ripley. We were told you were going to be late because you were doing another clause-by-clause meeting.

We have Mr. Ripley, Mr. Sabbagh, Madam Paré and Pierre-Marc Lauzon. Here we have all of the people who can give you the information you want to get, so we shall proceed.

When we left off last—and thank you very much, Kevin, for chairing that committee—

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

They were all on their best behaviour.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Well, they know they have you to deal with.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Exactly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I think we are now moving to NDP-9, according to my notes. I think that was moved by Mr. Julian.

Do you all have NDP-9 in front of you? Okay.

Go ahead, Peter.