Canadian Heritage Committee on Dec. 9th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Chris.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you so much.

Very quickly, Madam Chair, we've heard concerns from the tech platforms about specific provisions in this act. We agree that we don't want unintended consequences, and we believe this amendment provides greater clarity as to the intention of the provision and the act.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Is there any further discussion?

[The Clerk]

Mrs. Thomas has her hand up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mrs. Thomas does, and Ms. Gladu has her hand up in the chat.

Okay, go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Actually, Chair, it's going to be me who takes over from Mrs. Thomas.

We think amendment CPC-26 is better. Just for the sake of time, we're going to oppose this, because we think ours is better, and it's coming up shortly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Ms. Gladu, go ahead.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Certainly, I agree with what Mr. Waugh said. I do think amendment CPC-26 is better, and I want to remind you about the conversations we heard from witnesses about undue preference and how this would interfere with the way people try to downvote hateful content or misinformation and upvote news that's trending and that kind of thing. They had recommended section 52D of the Australian legislation.

In consultation with the legislative clerks, there will be a further amendment CPC-27 for greater clarity with respect to all of those things that are allowed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

Shall G-4 carry?

I'm getting a sense that G-4 will be defeated on division. Is anyone voting for it?

[The Clerk]

I believe carried on division is what's being discussed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I heard Ms. Gladu and Mr. Waugh speak, but I didn't hear what the others think.

Shall G-4 carry on division?

(Amendment agreed to on division [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Now we go to BQ-6.

[Philippe Méla]

Madam Chair, it's the legislative clerk here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Mr. Méla.

[The Clerk]

Since G-4 was adopted, there is a line conflict between BQ-6 and CPC-26.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes. There's a line conflict with BQ-6 and CPC-26. Okay.

Now we go to CPC-27.

Yes, Ms. Gladu.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

This is the one I was talking about. It would add the following:

(2) An operator that ranks or curates news content, increases or decreases the prominence of news content or makes news content available in a manner that makes a user more or less likely to interact with it does not contravene paragraph 51(1)(b).

That's just for greater clarity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Is there any discussion on this?

Yes, Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

I appreciate the amendment brought forward by my colleague Ms. Gladu. The only thing I would add is that in really basic, simple terms, this amendment is simply looking to protect the Internet in the way that it functions now. Individuals go online to look for content that appeals to them rather than what should be forced in front of their eyeballs. This protects that element. Users of the Internet, when they go searching for something, would continue to get content that would be curated for them, and that would not be called undue preference.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Is there any further discussion?

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

(Clause 51 as amended agreed to on division [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(On clause 52)

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We are now on amendment G-5.

Go ahead, Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

Very quickly, this amendment allows the CRTC to dismiss frivolous complaints as well as establish what factors they need to evaluate a complaint.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Is there any discussion?

(Amendment agreed to on division [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 52 as amended agreed to on division)

(Clause 53 agreed to on division)

Next is amendment NDP-28, which proposes new clause 53.1.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am going to move only part of NDP-28. I will be moving the part that Bill C-18 be amended by adding after line 30 on page 17 the following new clause:

53.1(1) If an eligible news business enters into a covered agreement, the business must file a copy of the agreement with the Commission within 30 days after the day on which it enters into the agreement or 30 days after the day on which an arbitration panel makes a decision that is deemed to be an agreement under section 42, as the case may be.

(2) The Commission must maintain and publish on its website a list of covered agreements, including the names of the parties and the commercial value and terms of the agreements.

(3) The Commission must add a covered agreement to the list within 90 days after the day on which a copy of the agreement is filed under subsection (1).

I am moving those three portions. I am not moving the fourth paragraph. I wanted to be clear about that. We have consulted the legislative clerk. I want to make sure that it is clear to everybody that I am not moving the fourth paragraph.

The three paragraphs that I am moving are reflected in testimony that came from both Unifor, Canada's largest private sector union, which represents so many journalists across the country, and the independent online news publishers of Canada, which publish so many of the terrific online publications, including, in my community, the Burnaby Beacon and the New West Anchor.

What this does is help to set that level playing field to ensure that there is more transmission of information and that particularly the small players have the information they need to ensure they get the best possible agreement, so that the hoovering up from big tech of all the journalistic ad revenues will actually serve to benefit both community publications.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

I have Ms. Gladu.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

In the private sector, commercial agreements are typically not published with all their details, so I'll be opposing this.