Evidence of meeting #70 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agreement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
Madam Chair, the CPL is a member league of Canada Soccer, and Canadian Soccer Business, CSB, is the agency that delivers the marketing and broadcast assets of the association.
If, for some reason, the CPL were not in existence, the relationship and the contract would still exist with Canadian Soccer Business.
12:10 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
That's my understanding, but I would have to look at the contract in detail to understand how the dissolution would occur.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
It's very interesting. The last point I'll make is that now you're going to be, shortly, having a meeting with the players and going through all the information. That was something they brought up with us, so that's happening now.
Is that a consequence of their meeting with the parliamentary committee?
12:10 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
It is not. We have had several sessions with both the men's and the women's national teams. This was a previously arranged and scheduled session that we had. We're having it later this afternoon.
In July 2022, we also had a session with Canadian Soccer Business and our women's national team, to walk through the agreement itself. That session was approximately an hour and a half, where the women and their counsel, and their representatives, had the opportunity to ask questions about that agreement.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you very much, Mr. Shields.
Now I go to the Liberals, with Anthony Housefather.
Anthony, you have five minutes, please.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I'm just going to start by reminding everybody where we were.
Motion M-37, adopted at the meeting of November 30, 2018, makes very clear that the March 2018 preliminary agreement by the board to sign the document is no longer valid because the board reconsidered multiple times during the year. On November 30, they specifically asked the negotiating committee to come back to them, and said that they would then need to decide whether to approve it.
I think you have a significant governance issue if you're relying on a March 2018 date, and I suggest your board look at that.
You have asked us not to deal with the substance of the agreement at this meeting. You've asked for us to do that only in a private meeting, but you, yourselves, have offered terms of the agreement, unilaterally, at this meeting.
For example, Mr. Cochrane, you spoke of broadcasting rights, and you said that you are now receiving an annual amount for broadcasting rights.
What you didn't say, sir, is that it's an annual advance that can be recouped on broadcasting rights—in section 9.5 of the agreement.
Is it not true that the amount you spoke of is actually an amount that's an advance that can be recouped if CSB doesn't reach that amount for broadcasting?
12:15 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
If I'm understanding your question correctly, you're talking about international broadcast rights. Is that correct?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
You said you were getting an annual amount for broadcasting rights and that it is an amount that can be recouped. It's an advance that CSB can recoup if the broadcasting rights don't reach that amount. Is that correct?
12:15 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
I believe what is being referenced is the international broadcast rights and the amount of $250,000 per year—or $500,000. I can't remember the exact number.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
You mean under that section of the agreement, if you don't reach it.
Also, what you didn't say is that you've signed away to CSB national broadcast rights, and you get no monies for that. Is that correct?
12:15 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
The amount that we receive for national broadcast rights, or have ever received for national broadcast rights, has been nil. We have never received any funding to help our game—
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Yes, that's correct, but if CSB sells national broadcast rights, it gets all the monies for it. Is that correct?
12:15 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
That is correct.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
Okay. Let me ask you a question. Has CSB ever been in material breach of the agreement? My colleague asked you that, and you didn't answer. Has it ever failed to make payment?
12:15 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
We had one situation in 2020, where there was a disagreement between the two parties, but we are managing that disagreement through the clauses within the existing contract. We are having discussions about that situation.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
However, theoretically, at one point they were in material breach of the agreement, and you could have terminated the agreement had you wanted to.
Why did you sign an agreement that included sponsorship and broadcasting rights for the women's team with an organization that was providing money to the Canadian Premier League but not to any corresponding women's league?
12:15 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
Just to confirm.... I did not sign the agreement. I was not a part of the negotiations of that agreement, but I am living with—
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
I don't mean you, personally, Mr. Cochrane. Canada Soccer signed the agreement. Mr. Reed signed the agreement. The agreement, again, was with an organization that funds a men's league but doesn't fund a women's league. However, the women's team was a core asset that you included in the agreement. Why did you do that? Why didn't you save the women's team for somebody who would fund the women's league?
12:15 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
Madam Chair, the agreement we signed with Canadian Soccer Business was for it to sell the assets of our association, as well as the assets of the Canadian Premier League. While it was not included in the agreement for a women's league to be developed, it was my understanding that it was always in the mind of Canadian Soccer Business to ultimately create a women's league.
Now that there is a women's league on the horizon, the focus for us now is to help that organization to not only meet membership but set the criteria for them to be able to be sanctioned and to be successful and sustainable when they kick a ball in 2025.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
That's a good thing.
Let me come back to the agreement. Why did Canada Soccer agree to a term of the agreement that could be renewed for 10 years only unilaterally by CSB? Why would you have allowed CSB to unilaterally determine, after 10 years, whether or not the agreement would be extended? That's a very unusual clause. Why would you have agreed to that?
12:20 p.m.
General Secretary, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
As someone who wasn't a part of those discussions, I would probably prefer to have my colleague from the board, Monsieur Bérubé, answer.
12:20 p.m.
Independent Director, Board of Directors, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association
Yes, Madam Chair.
The agreement spanned a number of years. From our perspective, this provided financial security for all the years covered by the agreement. So it was clearly in our best interest to sign a long-term agreement immediately.
For its part, Canadian Soccer Business was accepting a financial commitment and risk, and did not know whether that financial risk would increase or decrease over the years. Therefore, the agreement included a clause allowing Canadian Soccer Business to withdraw from the agreement after 10 years. Originally, Canadian Soccer Business was primarily investing the funds we needed to develop a Canadian league.