Canadian Heritage Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Stephanie Geosits, Independent Director, Board of Directors, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Hello to you and to the members of the committee.

I am Stephanie Geosits, a member of the Canada Soccer board of directors.

[Paul-Claude Bérubé, Independent Director, Board of Directors, Canada Soccer, Canadian Soccer Association]

Madam Chair, Committee members, good morning.

My name is Paul-Claude Bérubé and I am a member of Canada Soccer's Board of Directors. I am also a member of its governance committee.

I was also involved with Soccer Quebec for several years.

[Stephanie Geosits]

Canada Soccer is the governing body for the sport in our country, and it is made up of our provincial associations and professional league members. Canada Soccer is also charged with coaching and referee development. The other board members and I are volunteers from across the country who collaborate with partners and staff to grow soccer in Canada from the grassroots level up and strive to ensure that soccer is the safest sport in our country.

All the national teams, including the players and technical staff of the senior men's and women's national teams, are part of Canada Soccer, not separate entities. The senior national teams are the backbone of the association, and the women's team have been crucial in our growth, inspiring Canadians with their skills for decades.

Equality in sport for people of all gender identities is imperative and subject to an increasingly global conversation. Canada Soccer must always be a force for progress in that conversation. On equal pay, we feel we are doing that. In other ways, we have fallen short at times, and we commit to doing better.

We hear the concerns of the women's national team players, and we are committed to addressing those concerns and consistently improving their experiences in the national program.

[Earl Cochrane]

Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Earl Cochrane. I'm the general secretary of Canada Soccer.

Canada Soccer governs the global sport in our country. We are custodians of a sport that, perhaps more than any other, has a platform to transform society for the better. It is incumbent upon Canada Soccer to amplify Canadian values and to weave them into the fabric of our game, both domestically and internationally. We haven't always been perfect, but our intent is to have a significant positive impact on those who play and enjoy our sport.

In recent years, compensation for the Canada Soccer national teams has grown exponentially, but payments to the two teams have always been similar. From 2012 to 2019, player compensation was $2.92 million for the men and $2.96 million for the women.

As the national teams have grown and enjoyed success, they have been paid as such. When payment to each national team has been unequal in any given year, it has generally been driven by differences in competition calendars. In 2020, COVID-19 led to the inactivity of both teams and obviously had a negative impact on their compensation. Even so, that year the women's national team was paid the amount contractually owed to them, while the men's team received no pay. However, the compensation for the teams has never been the same, and Canada Soccer understands and fully supports the women's team's desire for equal pay.

Canada Soccer is committed to delivering equal pay and ensuring that the environments for both of our national teams are built for success. Based on those principles, in June 2022, Canada Soccer first offered a framework for the same collectively bargained agreements to the players of both national teams. The proposed agreements will pay players on both teams the same amount for playing a 90-minute match and will share total competition prize money equally between the teams. Simply put, national team players, regardless of their gender identity, will be paid the same amount for their work in representing our country.

Canada Soccer has negotiated in good faith and will continue to do so. We have provided documentation to inform those negotiations. In fact, we have a financial information session with the teams in a few hours. We have provided the national team players and their representatives detailed information and briefings on Canada Soccer's financials, its audited financial statements and detailed breakdowns of Canada Soccer spending.

The leadership team of the women's national team and their legal counsel were also given a presentation on Canada Soccer and the Canadian Soccer Business agreement. The players and their representatives have always been welcome to ask any questions about that information. Canada Soccer has also met and will continue to meet all legal requirements for financial disclosure. We know the government is considering new requirements for national sports organizations, and we welcome direction on that from the Minister of Sport.

We firmly believe the offer in front of the national teams today is fair and equitable. The agreement would make Canada's women's team the second-highest paid women's national team amongst the 211 FIFA member associations, trailing only the United States. The men's team will also be fairly compensated and in line with other World Cup-calibre nations, but this requires a sign-off by all three parties. We are doing this despite the fact that Canada Soccer's revenues are significantly less than those of most of our competitors.

In 2021, Canada Soccer's total revenue was approximately $33 million. In that same year, the football associations of the women's teams currently ranked higher than Canada by FIFA—the U.S., Germany, England, Sweden and France—had total revenues ranging from $70 million to $700 million. We are paying Canada's women more than those associations, with the exception of the U.S.

Also, Canada Soccer is working to deliver equal pay in an extremely unequal international environment. For example, Canada Soccer will receive $9 million for appearing in the group stage of the 2022 men's World Cup, while receiving a similar amount for winning the 2023 women's World Cup.

Canada Soccer is offering to equalize this disparity for the women's team, because they deserve it. They are world-class athletes and global ambassadors for our country. Canada Soccer commits to being a part of the solution to the unequal financial environment in which we operate. Canada Soccer is also dedicated to equity in our national team operations. Equal opportunity has been and will continue to be our standard practice.

From 2012 to 2019, total staffing and program spending was just about $37 million for both national teams. Recently at Canada Soccer we made some funding decisions for the operations of the women's team that we thought would have minimal impact. We were wrong. Those decisions were made with good intentions of controlling spending, but we should not have made those decisions that negatively impacted the women's team.

Canada Soccer is now in conversations with the technical staff of our women's team to reconfirm what they need to be successful at the World Cup, and we are committed to meeting those needs.

Canada Soccer also recommitted privately to the women's team players and is publicly reiterating today that we will continue to deliver the resources needed to compete and succeed at the international level. That includes, but is not limited to, preparatory matches against top-tier opponents, adequate staffing, a minimum number of players, adherence to an agreed-to travel policy, and equitable training venues and accommodations. However, it would not necessarily mean equal amounts spent on the operations of the national teams at all times, because the teams have very different competitive calendars and requirements within the FIFA match windows.

Delivering on those commitments will require additional revenue, so Canada Soccer is developing a five-year, revenue-focused strategic plan and holding discussions to amend its agreement with CSB.

The CSB agreement provides valuable broadcast and streaming opportunities for both national teams. It guarantees Canada Soccer an annual payment, and it has secured new partners to significantly invest in grassroots and high-performance soccer in Canada.

Prior to the CSB agreement, Canada Soccer was paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to broadcast women's and men's national team games. No Canadian broadcaster was willing to pay to broadcast those games. The CSB agreement has resolved that issue and helped grow the women's game in Canada.

The governing body for European football, the Scottish FA, Major League Soccer and Soccer United Marketing have or have had similar agreements.

Today, the unilateral term option and limited ability for us to share in upside revenue are drawbacks of the agreement with CSB, but we hope to resolve those issues shortly.

In recent years, Canada Soccer's national teams have achieved an unprecedented level of success. The women's team's 2021 Olympic gold medal was a particularly special moment, and the women's team has consistently demonstrated excellence. Canada Soccer is proud of those achievements and will fully support the women's team to succeed at the 2023 women's World Cup, to qualify for Paris 2024 in September, and to continue to compete for titles.

We are listening and responding to what the players and technical staff need. We are committed to equal pay through the proposed collective bargaining agreements, and we must deliver on our commitments within set budgets and financial realities.

I'm going to go off-script for one moment, so I apologize, Madam Chair. A few weeks ago, Janine Beckie, a player on the women's national team, appeared before you. She recently suffered an injury that will see her miss the World Cup and the remainder of her 2023 NWSL season with her full-time, professional club. On behalf of Canada Soccer and, if it's not too presumptuous, on behalf of this committee, I would like to let her know that she's in our thoughts and we wish her the best on her recovery.

I've gotten to know Janine over the past year, quite well. On top of being incredibly professional and passionate about this sport and this country, she's a warrior. I know that she will come back stronger than ever. I wanted to share publicly that we will, through the team and through our full-time staff, do everything we can to provide every opportunity for her to be involved in any way that she sees fit at the World Cup.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I want to echo your concern and hope that Janine will be able to be back on her feet some time soon, playing the game she loves so much.

However, we're going to move now to the question and answer segment. That segment is going to be starting with a six-minute segment. You will get questions from the committee, and the six minutes include questions and answers. Can everyone be as concise as possible in their answers and their questions?

We will begin with the Conservatives.

Mr. Kevin Waugh is first, for six minutes, please.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I, too, wish the best for Janine. She was here less than two weeks ago, and it was a devastating injury that she suffered in Portland. Our thoughts are with her as she is on the rebound.

Mr. Cochrane, thank you for your comments. I'm a little disappointed we are not seeing the former president, Mr. Bontis, but what reason did Mr. Bontis give you and others around the board for his departure?

[Earl Cochrane]

The reasons for Mr. Bontis's departure and what was shared with the board were based on the letter from the member associations, seeking his resignation.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

For the provincial associations to do that, what was their issue with the leadership of your organization? Obviously, it must have gotten to a toxic location for the provincial authorities to write this letter to see Mr. Bontis step down.

Can you fill us in?

[Earl Cochrane]

The letter didn't describe the reasoning in detail. We reached out to the member associations to see if we could get on a call to have a further discussion, and they did not want to have that call.

Mr. Bontis decided that it was in the best interests of the association if he accepted what they were asking and made his resignation known.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Did anyone reach out to the provincial associations from Canada Soccer to deal with their issues? According to you, we don't know what their issue was. They just wrote the letter; Bontis left, and let's leave it at that. There has to be a little more involved here.

[Earl Cochrane]

Madam Chair, the message that we received from the member associations was that for all intents and purposes, it was what would equate to a non-confidence vote.

I'll also turn it over to my colleagues, in case they have anything further to add. They are on the board and may have had some conversations with some of the member associations.

[Stephanie Geosits]

The member associations were coming out of a meeting in Ottawa, where they gathered and identified some issues that they would like addressed through better stakeholder relations with them, ensuring that there is feedback and that their input is included going forward.

As a board, we know that we need to do better in terms of our broader stakeholder relations. That was the discussion around the board table and with our interim president and vice-president in place. That is a key focus for us, based on the member associations' feedback and feedback from the teams that we need to do better in communication with our stakeholders.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Like Hockey Canada, do the grassroots teams in each province and territory give a registration fee to Canada Soccer? If so, where does that money go?

That's for Mr. Cochrane.

[Earl Cochrane]

Madam Chair, yes, the member associations provide us with a membership fee. That membership fee is $9 per player across the country, and that fee and that structure go into the general revenue of the association to help support the development of both of our national teams. In addition to that, there's the significant influence that we have on coaching development, referee development, player development and all the things that we are responsible for as a governing body.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Yes, we heard that from the four women who represent the national team, who were here two weeks ago. It's not only about salary. It's about the surrounding of accommodations and it's about extra players. It's about a number of things.

I laughed when you said you're looking forward to pay equity, and then you released a news release about an hour ahead of our meeting with the four-woman team. They're upset. The men are upset. The men tried, in fact, to boycott the game in Vancouver last year. The women nearly walked off the field in the United States. You have a big problem here.

The problem is they want to follow the money. Who agreed to the deal with Canadian Soccer Business? Let's start there.

Mr. Cochrane, who agreed to this deal in secrecy with Canadian Soccer Business?

[Earl Cochrane]

There are a couple of questions there. I think I'll answer the latter first.

The decision to agree to a contract and a representation agreement with Canada Soccer Business was a decision that was ultimately made by the board of directors. Perhaps it would be best answered by one of the members of the board of directors who was here. I was not here. I was not party to that contract, and I did not negotiate that contract.

I will turn it over to Paul-Claude to answer.

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

I will answer the question very specifically, if I may, Madam Chair.

Indeed, discussions regarding this agreement with Canadian Soccer Business began in 2017. As the Board of Directors, we agreed in March to adopt a Memorandum of Understanding. Subsequently, in late 2017, we proceeded with due diligence. In March 2018, we received a draft agreement and agreed to seek amendments. Ultimately, this agreement was signed on January 1, 2019, if memory serves me well.

It was not a secret. It was addressed during all of the Board discussions. Moreover, Board members were given all the information they needed to make this decision as discussions about this agreement proceeded.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Excuse me, Monsieur Bérubé. I am very sorry. We have gone over time now. Maybe when you get another question later on, you might want to expand on this answer that you're giving us.

Thank you very much.

I now go to the Liberals and Mr. Housefather.

Anthony, you have six minutes, please.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Of course, I also send my best wishes to Janine, who was a very impressive witness before us a few weeks ago.

I'm going to come back to Mr. Waugh's line of questioning. Both of you have testified, and you're both under oath, as you know.

The board of directors approved the agreement with Canadian Soccer Business. One of the issues that we are here for relates to the lack of transparency around the representation agreement.

I will ask you.... At your board meeting of November 30, 2018, motion 37 was adopted. It states:

Motion: The CSA CPL negotiating team...to meet with representatives of CSB no later than December 14, 2018, with all non-substantive issues resolved and with the intent of negotiating a final agreement by December 14, 2018; and that the CSA negotiating team report back to the Board at a conference call no later than December 16, 2018 to recommend either approval of the negotiated agreement, or to decide on next steps.

That was moved by Bernie Morton and seconded by Ryan Fequet.

The next meeting minutes provided to us were from March 23, 2019, and there was no signal that the board ever approved this agreement. I have no board minutes showing the board approving this agreement.

Mr. Cochrane, on what date did the board of directors approve the agreement? Where can you refer me to that in the minutes, please?

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

I can answer that question.

If I recall correctly, the agreement was approved with some amendments on March 27, 2018, as part of Resolution No. 55...

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Bérubé, I must interrupt you.

I just quoted verbatim from the minutes of a meeting that took place after March 2018, that is on November 30th, 2018, during which a motion was passed that clearly stated that the Board had not yet approved the agreement.

It reads, again:

The CSA...negotiating team...report back to the Board at a conference call no later than December 16, 2018 to recommend either approval of the negotiated agreement, or to decide on next steps.

There was never, then—as I see it, because all the board meeting minutes were supposed to be provided to the committee—any subsequent board meeting that showed that this agreement, that this very material agreement in its final version was ever approved by the board of directors.

Can you please clarify? On what date after November 30, 2018 and motion M-37 did the board of directors of Canada Soccer approve this very material representation agreement?

This question is for you, Mr. Cochrane.

[Earl Cochrane]

I wasn't involved in any of the board discussions, nor was I at the time the general secretary or CEO of Canada Soccer.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

No, but you're here to represent Canada Soccer. You were the witness summoned to represent Canada Soccer. You should have taken material notice of this very important question that everybody knew was going to be brought up today at the committee.

You have a former board member named Ryan Fequet, who was quoted as saying:

The board recognized this was a [expletive] deal right from the start. You should know about an organization you are partnering with if you are giving them literally all of your marketing rights. And every time we have asked for information about Canada Soccer Business, the board has been shut down. The board absolutely did not approve this contract.

You have other former board members who say the same.

I went through all your minutes, and you have no minutes. Yes, it is true that in March 2018, there was a document that had some type of approval, but that was not a final version. On November 30, 2018, the board reconsidered that document and said it wanted to come back to it to have the negotiating team report back to recommend either approval or next steps. The agreement was signed on December 1, 2019. It does not look like your board ever approved this agreement, which would be a considerable, material problem, as this is a very important document that would have needed to be approved by the board.

Mr. Cochrane, what did you find in your research in terms of what date the board approved this document?

[Earl Cochrane]

My understanding was that the date of March 27, 2018 was when the board of directors approved the representation—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Cochrane, I have read for you from the minutes of November 30, 2018. November 30, 2018 is later than March 2018. Is that right?