Canadian Heritage Committee on March 20th, 2023

[Earl Cochrane]

That is correct.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

That is correct.

On that date, the board said that all non-substantive issues should be resolved by December 14, and that the negotiating team “should report back to the Board at a conference call no later than December 16, 2018 to recommend either approval of the negotiated agreement”—clearly, the board did not consider it approved—“or to decide on next steps”.

Did that meeting ever happen? We don't have minutes of it.

[Earl Cochrane]

Madam Chair, I'm not aware of the board meeting minutes, as I was not involved in the board at that time. I can certainly go back through the minutes that we have provided and try to find if that information exists, but my understanding, again, was that on March 27, 2018—

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

You're repeating that. You're saying that, but I have proved to you that you have minutes from later that year, when the board had clearly not approved the agreement, because it said it wanted the negotiating team to come back either to recommend approval or to decide on next steps. Clearly, on November 30, 2018, the board felt it had not approved the document.

In my next round of questioning, since you in your opening comments, Mr. Cochrane, made substantive comments about the agreement—even though you have asked us not to discuss it and said you wanted to do so in camera—I will reserve the rest of my time for the next round of questions that I have, and I will be asking you substantive questions about this agreement, since you opened the door in your opening statements.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Housefather.

I now go to the Bloc Québécois with Sébastien Lemire for six minutes, please.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I, too, would like to send a message of encouragement to Janine Beckie and tell her that we support her with all our hearts.

My question is along the same lines as my colleague Mr. Housefather's.

Who advised you to enter into this agreement with Canadian Soccer Business?

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

I don't know if the question is directed at any of us in particular, but I can answer it.

First off, let's revisit the context in 2017. At that time, we were in dire need of revenue and had huge expenses related to broadcasting rights for Canadian teams' games, both on the women's and men's side. In fact, it was costing us close to $1 million per year to broadcast our games and we needed revenue to sustain the development of soccer in Canada.

This agreement was one of the solutions identified by management and the Board of Directors. It allowed for the creation of a national soccer league in Canada, while also generating revenue. Of course, this was all prepared and discussed by the Board of Directors and management. We also spoke to our organization's legal counsel to get their opinion on the various documents we received.

I want to clarify that this agreement was indeed approved on March 27, 2018. I have before me the resolution that was passed at that time. It clearly states the following:

“To approve the CSB representation agreement as circulated with amendments.”

So that was done on March 27, 2018. We asked for changes and discussions continued. Finally, in December, during a conference call, all board members expressed satisfaction with the agreement. The agreement was subsequently signed on January 1, 2019.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

If I understand what you are saying correctly, no board member voiced any objection to the agreement.

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

There were no objections from the members of the Board of Directors to this agreement. The resolution was adopted by all members of the Board of Directors. As to what may have been said thereafter, obviously, that is up to each Board member.

At the time, I was present and participated in all of the Board meetings. Obviously, this deal was supported by the Board for a very good reason: it allowed our organization to earn $3 million a year in revenue and avoid $1 million a year in expenses for broadcasting our games. We needed the money. We concluded that receiving this amount would secure our activities for the long term, benefiting all our athletes and the sport we promote in Canada.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

If the decision was unanimous, where is the Board resolution authorizing Steve Reed to sign this agreement?

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

That's the one I just read, dated March 27, 2018.

Once we pass a resolution approving such an agreement, Mr. Reed, as Chairman of the Board, has the ability to sign the agreement on behalf of our organization. This right is granted to him automatically. There is no need for us to pass a resolution stating that Mr. Steve Reed may sign such an agreement.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You were supposed to receive reports from Canadian Soccer Business. Did you receive them? Did the Board of Directors review them?

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

This is a question about the organization's operations. I will ask Mr. Cochrane to answer it, since he is the one who receives such reports.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Cochrane, can you answer the question?

[Earl Cochrane]

Thank you very much.

We do have regular dialogue with Canadian Soccer Business. We do receive reports from them. As part of the ongoing discussions, as we look to modernize the agreement we will continue to have those moments where they report, and report via us, the details of their business.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

The United States had agreements in place, and those provided you with somewhat of a template. They, however, terminated those agreements, because they were bad.

Do you intend to do anything to terminate your agreement, since the conditions are no longer the same?

We really feel that Canadian Soccer Business and its participating teams, none of which are in Quebec, are being funded by women's soccer and our athletes.

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

I don't know if your question is for Mr. Cochrane or for me, but I'm happy to answer it.

Actually, it's quite the opposite. The agreement with Canadian Soccer Business allows us to fund the various programs we have in Canada for soccer development, which includes our women's and men's national teams.

Earlier, I mentioned $4 million a year, which is a net profit for our organization. If we didn't have that money, it would be impossible to pay our women's and men's national teams what we currently pay them.

So this agreement was beneficial at the time it was signed. Today, I agree with you that it warrants revisiting, and it will be reviewed. In fact, that began long before a request was made by a parliamentary committee.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Would you sign such an agreement again?

Is it possible to terminate this agreement?

[Paul-Claude Bérubé]

As with any agreement, there must be something in it for each partner. Obviously, if we found ourselves in a situation where the agreement was no longer achieving our long-term goals, we could certainly take steps to end it in some way. However, that is not our goal. Our goal is to renegotiate the agreement and obtain better terms given today's context.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Bérubé.

I'm sorry, Sébastien. Your time is up.

I will go now to the New Democratic Party, with Peter Julian.

You have six minutes, Peter.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Canadians deserve transparency. The reality is that this organization, which is supported by soccer players across the country and their parents, does not appear to be transparent at all.

I'm a former soccer coach. The reality is that as we ask these questions, we're finding that Canada Soccer is not providing the appropriate responses. I would suggest that it is in the interests of soccer players across the country and our national women's and men's teams, which we're very proud of, that Canada Soccer start giving responses.

My first question is related to the filing of financial statements. Corporations Canada requires that Canada Soccer file its financial statements every year. It was reported on February 11 that Canada Soccer is now in non-compliance for seven years in a row.

Has this been discussed at the board of directors level, that Canada Soccer is not filing its financial statements as required by Corporations Canada?

[Earl Cochrane]

Madam Chair, I can take that, and then perhaps Paul-Claude or Stephanie can follow.

I have no understanding of what the honourable member is speaking about. We have been in compliance with everything required of us by law, whether that is through the CRA, whether it's through Sport Canada, or whether it's through any of the government institutions we must report to. I have no understanding of what the member is speaking about.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Does this come as a surprise to you? I want to ask the board members. Does the board of directors, as we saw with Hockey Canada, have in camera meetings, with no minutes kept of certain decisions?

[Stephanie Geosits]

As part of our regular board meetings, we are updated on the filings. To our knowledge, similar to what Mr. Cochrane said, all of our filings are up to date. The comment from the member is not in keeping with what we have come to know. Like all board—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

With respect, that is not my question.

My question was, does the board of Canada Soccer have meetings, or parts of meetings, that are in camera, with no minutes kept?