Evidence of meeting #72 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Michael MacPherson
Wendy Glover  Secondary School Teacher and Athlete Development Consultant, As an Individual
Ryan Sheehan  Co-founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada, As an Individual
Kim Shore  Co-founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada, As an Individual
Robert Hedges  Secretary, Board of Directors, Athletes’ Association of Canada
MacIntosh Ross  Assistant Professor, Western University, Scholars Against Abuse in Canadian Sport

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I call this meeting to order.

Hello, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number 72 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

The Board of Internal Economy and public health authorities no longer require everyone to wear a mask, but masks and respirators are still excellent tools to prevent the spread of COVID-19 and other airborne diseases.

I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone in the room that you cannot take screenshots or photos of this meeting. In fact, it will be online. You can see it then.

I also want those of you who are virtual to know that, if you look at the bottom of your screen, you will see a little globe icon. If you press on that, you can get translation in English or French. For everyone on the floor, there are earpieces to get the translation.

Please direct all your remarks through the chair, and do not speak unless I call your name.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, September 20, 2022, this committee is meeting to continue its study on safe sport in Canada.

Today, we have witnesses here to speak to us about this issue. We have, as an individual, Wendy Glover, a secondary school teacher and athlete development consultant. We also have Ryan Sheehan and Kim Shore, co-founders, Gymnasts for Change Canada. We have Robert Hedges, secretary to the board of directors, Athletes' Association of Canada, who is here by video conference. For Scholars Against Abuse in Canadian Sport, we have MacIntosh Ross, assistant professor, Western University.

Welcome.

We will begin by—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

Could I have a point of order first, Madam Chair?

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Yes.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK

I think everyone has seen the motion I would like to present here, this morning, in both official languages. It would be option one, Madam Chair:

That Hockey Canada be ordered to provide the committee, within 24 hours of the adoption of this motion, the final report by Henein Hutchison, regarding the June 2018 alleged Sexual Assault Case in London, Ontario at the Hockey Canada Foundation Gala.

I heard that Henein Hutchison has given its report to Hockey Canada. I wish to receive it here, in the very near future, to look over.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you.

Is there any discussion on this motion?

Go ahead, Chris.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I discussed this with Mr. Waugh. I'm trying to be careful about what we discussed in camera. I have a broad concern about solicitor-client privilege, but I think I'm in the minority on that one.

The other issue is privacy. I think Mr. Waugh agreed, when we brought it up, and I see heads nodding on the other side. If there are names in the report, they should not be made public. I don't know how to word that. Perhaps it should be sent to the law clerk, first, for redaction, for privacy issues, before it comes back to the committee. I think we discussed this before. There are names that we all agree should not be made public.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

That's a prudent amendment, Chris. I think Kevin is nodding. Everybody else is nodding.

Kevin, if you don't mind, we will shelve this until we get that. Chris will talk to the law clerk and decide what the wording would look like. If you're in agreement, then yes.

Mike, the clerk here, is telling me that we have standard wording, which he will apply. We don't need to go to the law clerk.

Mike, if we have that and we can get it before the meeting ends, maybe we'll be able to go back to this motion then. What do you think?

11:05 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Michael MacPherson

You can vote on it now.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Do you want to vote now, with the amendment coming with regard to what Chris said?

11:05 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yes.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

All right. Is anyone opposed to amending the motion with regard to what Chris said, given that we will get the standard language from the clerk?

(Amendment agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to)

It sounds as if that motion passes unanimously. That's great. Thank you, everybody.

Gosh, can we not always work like that? That was very nicely done, Kevin.

Witnesses, you have five minutes each.

We begin with Wendy Glover, who is a secondary school teacher and athlete development consultant.

You have five minutes, Ms. Glover. Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Wendy Glover Secondary School Teacher and Athlete Development Consultant, As an Individual

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Dear members of the committee, I want to thank you for proving me wrong. Let me explain. I teach teenagers, and model a simple saying, “Stop complaining and address the concerns.”

About 12 years ago, after much observation and frustration from being immersed in the youth sport system as a teacher, parent and coach, and feeling powerless to instill positive change, I started a sport leadership program in a high school to address my concerns.

Over the years, I have told the over 500 adolescent student athletes that have been through my program, “You will be an adult one day, and if you're an educated active citizen, you may be able to improve the sports system, as I will be out of the system before it can be done.”

Where I was wrong was that I didn't think my voice would ever be listened to. I had almost lost all faith that the sport system could change for the better, and you all have given me and Canadians the opportunity for hope, and I thank you.

My educational background is a phys. ed. and health education teacher, certified in grades kindergarten through 12. I've had the opportunity to teach in an elementary school for five years, and secondary school for the last 20 years. My current teaching role for the last 12 years is unique as a health, wellness and sport management specialist. It allows me to teach sport science and sport leadership, and provide athletic development guidance and experiential learning opportunities to student athletes in the sport community.

As part of my job, I review sport development models, and teach appropriate applications of them to student athletes who are currently in the sport system. I also get to help plan the sport, academic and career paths of the student athletes from high school to post-secondary. I teach and assess youth and adolescent physical, cognitive, social and emotional development applied within sport. I have written programs, courses and curriculum being taught in the Ontario school system.

Often, with teen athletes, I use evidence-based research to write programs, and create resources for addressing concerns they have, like a guide for moving away from home and into a billet family. We consult the research and athletes, and then create documents and programs to address what the young athletes have voiced themselves.

Two years ago, I was encouraged to contribute to the hockey community as part of the Ontario Hockey League as an academic and personal development adviser with the London Knights. My education experience was relevant. Additionally, my children grew up in the system, and are now in their 20s. One plays professionally. My husband is a former professional hockey player who has coached youth hockey for many years. I know the hockey system, and the players who are part of the OHL.

I'm not innocent in my part in the hockey system as my children went through it. I was simply at a loss for what to do as any efforts I made were often not well received. I believe my unique perspective, and understanding the various stakeholder views in hockey, has been helpful to understanding some of the problems within it, and the complexities in trying to address them.

For example, how do you expect hockey administrators to address adolescent behaviour when they usually have little, if any, education or training on how to do that? They're not teachers. They're not used to disciplining and addressing the behaviour of adolescents.

The word discipline means to teach. When we see behaviour that is not appropriate, we need to call it out, teach, give consequences, and provide opportunities to improve. We are lacking in the ability to effectively teach and monitor appropriate behaviour of some players within the system. It is easy to cast blame at the leaders without understanding why they may be leading in the way that they are. They need more help and guidance.

More education programs are needed to teach players, parents and stakeholders about child development and athlete development, as many problems stem from a lack of understanding. Simply having parents, players and stakeholders complete online courses does not mean they understand the concepts, have learned the appropriate values, follow them appropriately or apply them effectively.

The reason this matters is because it's the lack of understanding and application that has led to inappropriate behaviour and governance. Any system applied to the masses has flaws. You simply cannot adequately compare the experiences of the players at the highest level of minor hockey sport participation in Toronto to that of Nova Scotia, northern Ontario or the Prairies as the environments are different.

Provincial sport bodies need to have some flexibility to apply the model. This ambiguity has allowed local sport organizations to apply the rules under the guise of best practices, when in fact it is not in the best interests of children. Well-intentioned adults are missing the key understanding of how athlete development should be applied. Those in charge need to be educated often, evaluated and mentored. I don't believe the people in decision-making leadership positions can do so effectively if not governed properly.

How adults lead sports has to change. More paid positions need to be created. More interdisciplinary teams need to be established. More community partnerships need to be established. More communication channels need to be created. More education programs need to be written and taught, and—

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Ms. Glover, can you please wrap up?

11:10 a.m.

Secondary School Teacher and Athlete Development Consultant, As an Individual

Wendy Glover

—more reporting needs to be done.

Thank you.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you. You can elaborate as you get asked questions.

Now we go to Ryan Sheehan, co-founder of Gymnasts for Change Canada.

Mr. Sheehan, you have five minutes, please.

11:15 a.m.

Ryan Sheehan Co-founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada, As an Individual

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I started gymnastics at the age of three, bouncing off the walls and making my first national team at 11. Since then, I have competed at four world age group championships and at world cups, won the Pan American Championships twice and competed at two world championships.

When I was 15 and 16, I was sexually abused by someone I thought was a national team therapist, doping control officer—the person who watches you urinate while drug testing—and international judge. A few of these experiences are—and I apologize for the language I'm going to use—his telling me that the next time he saw me, I'd better have “my legs, armpits and asshole shaved”; his refusing to give me ice unless he treated my groin, where he told me to “move my dick or he could move it for me” and then put his hand up my gym suit and underwear and groped my genitals twice, only to tell me to ice them; and his telling me and my teammates about his Prince Albert piercing and how long he couldn't have sex for after having it done.

In 2013, his contract with GymCan was “not renewed”, and he went on to work out of a clinic at a gymnastics club, marketing his false qualifications.

In 2019, my coach tried to report to GymCan but was told the matter was no longer in its jurisdiction. I spent a year trying to figure out what professional designation this man actually had. Originally, we were led to believe he was a physiotherapist; he was not. We were then told that he was an athletic therapist, and he hadn't held that designation since 2002.

Ultimately, I lodged a complaint with CCES, which demanded that GymCan do an investigation. I spoke with Gretchen Kerr, who had been the GymCan welfare officer for the past 30 years. I went without an update for 10 months. Finally, she shared with me that four other individuals had come forward detailing their experiences with this man. Kerr's report made no recommendations for sanction or discipline. Instead, I and the others were told to report this matter to the college of massage therapists. We were surprised to discover that this man, who was sent across the world as medical support staff, was merely a massage therapist. This man was never sanctioned by GymCan.

In July 2021, I put out a post on social media saying I had been sexually abused and that my reporting experience with GymCan left me feeling more broken than the abuse itself. Two days later, I was asked to have a call with Ms. Kerr in which she asked me, “Why are you so mad at Gymnastics Canada?” She claimed that I had never filed a formal complaint, so I had no reason to be upset, and that if I was careful about what I posted, she would ensure there would be an outcome that both she and I would be happy with.

After this call with Ms. Kerr, I started planning how to take my own life: the friend I would drop my dog off to while I claimed I needed to go out of town for the weekend, the air conditioning hose I would take to siphon the exhaust from my car into my vehicle, the empty Edmonton transit parking lot I would park in after hours, and the delayed email I would send to my family of where they could find my body.

My call with Gretchen was the ultimate loss of hope. The organization that my family and I entrusted with my physical and mental well-being for two decades could not even do the bare minimum to investigate my case unless forced, and then attempted to silence me.

Finally, 15 years after my abuse, this man signed an undertaking with the massage college for three counts of sexual abuse and agreed to give up his licence “in the best interest of the public”. I have now connected with 19 others who have had sexually abusive experiences with this man.

The recent McLaren report stated that 83% of respondents had a positive experience in gymnastics. I do not disagree with that statistic because the irony of my story is that 99% of my gymnastics experience has been exceptional.

We can hold two truths: that the sport is incredibly important to many of us and that there is a culture in Canadian sport rife with abuse, complicity and enabling that can only begin to be solved by a national inquiry. There were many nights where I felt broken beyond repair. I was not broken by sport; I was abused in sport and broken by the system. As MP Duncan said, it should not take years of therapy to recover from a career in sport; the cost is too high.

Today you will hear multiple examples about a researcher entrenched in the sports system who's influencing the direction of safe sport at every level. Now with an opportunity to support a national inquiry, Gretchen Kerr opposes it. A researcher who doesn't want anyone else to look more closely at corruption in sport, she has said that she already knows everything that anybody needs to know about fixing the sports system, but she doesn't declare a single one of her conflicts of interest. She gets paid millions of dollars to do research on abuse in sport. Her Ph.D. student is the president of AthletesCAN, which appointed Gretchen as its case manager. Gretchen has been the welfare officer at GymCan for over 30 years. She has been in a position to make gymnastics better for 30 years and yet here we are.

This is not the case of a few bad apples and a few people who have enabled them. This is a systemic human rights and abuse crisis across the entire sports system. While we are grateful for the opportunity to share lived experiences in a forum such as this, we are barely scratching the surface of this problem. This is just one of the inappropriate and abusive experiences I have encountered in gymnastics over my career.

It is the height of arrogance to say we already know everything. We call for a national inquiry that can compel testimony and unravel the complexities of funding, conflicts of interest and corruption.

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much.

We now go to Ms. Kim Shore for five minutes, please.

11:20 a.m.

Kim Shore Co-founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada, As an Individual

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thought it was just me whose hips were too fat by age 10, and whose coach went to strippers so that he could tell us how it looked when girls did the splits on glass tables.

I thought it was just me whose coach terrified her into attempting skills—one of which resulted in a broken leg—and who screamed things like, “You're a waste of my time, your mother's money and your own effort.”

Was it just me who was forcibly kissed by a married coach, who then had to miss practices to avoid him, who suffered two grand mal seizures after a training accident that got no medical attention, and who earned a full-ride scholarship to a division I NCAA school, only to give it up to escape a predatory coach who was later banned for life?

I spent my entire childhood in gymnastics. Despite it all, I loved the sport, but I spent many adult years recovering from it—and I am not alone.

In 2018, I joined the GymCan board of directors. It was becoming apparent that gymnastics had serious human rights and child abuse issues to tackle, and I was ready to help. There was interest at first, but then resistance, gaslighting and insults. Eventually, I was told to stand down when I challenged wrongdoing too many times.

Here are some of the highlights.

In 2016, a GymCan board chair was arrested for the possession and distribution of child pornography. He had previously gone to prison in 1992 for child prostitution, and nobody knew.

In 2015 to 2018, executives were informed by staff and others about inappropriate behaviour by multiple coaches. Information was suppressed, and there was a failure to act on their duty to care. The coaches kept coaching, and at least one reoffended.

In 2018, a secret internal investigation led to two executives resigning, one of whom is now a CEO at a different national sport organization.

In 2017, two out of three women's national team coaches were arrested. The third was relieved of his duties in 2019, with the CEO citing, “the gravity of the situation is at a level that I must remove him from his role” as a result of “both formal and informal complaints.” Conversely, the gymnastics community was told he left for personal reasons.

I pushed back many times, to no avail. The welfare officer of 30 years insisted that Gymnastics Canada had received only one formal complaint about his conduct and that it was very unusual to suspend or expel someone based on one complaint.

I still wonder how many complaints it takes to trigger a safe sport investigation. What is a child's safety worth?

In June 2021, I opposed the naming of a coach to team Canada because a formal complaint by an Olympian was still unresolved after eight months. Within days, the case was dropped, with no investigation. The coach went to the Olympics, and I resigned from the board.

This is how gymnastics in Canada has operated for decades. Putting a new CEO in place will not fix it. It's much bigger than gymnastics, and bigger than any one national sport organization. It's a complete failure to do the right thing by children and athletes, while protecting abusers and enablers. If balance of power was a hockey game, the score would be: athletes nothing; sport system everything.

Canadian sport is a tangled web of people. Many of them have failed athletes, but continue to influence developments like the universal code of conduct, the Canadian sport policy and the Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner, and sit at the minister's roundtable discussions. Is it any wonder that so many athletes don't trust those running our sport system? They are those who also say a national inquiry is not necessary.

Willful blindness, an imbalance of power and undeclared conflicts of interest need to be uncovered and resolved. Adults need to stop choosing to protect their legacy over protecting children. Resistance to a national inquiry needs to be deeply scrutinized. We recommend a national inquiry to interrogate and then repair Canadian sport.

Thank you very much.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much, Ms. Shore.

Now I go to the athletes' association of Canada and Robert Hedges for five minutes, please.

Mr. Hedges is on by video conference.

11:25 a.m.

Robert Hedges Secretary, Board of Directors, Athletes’ Association of Canada

Thank you for having me here today and thank you to all the panellists here today for their efforts in this space.

I am an active athlete, a four-time Paralympian and I have been on the national team since 2007.

Today I'm here speaking to you on behalf of AthletesCAN, which is the association for Canada’s national senior team athletes, founded in 1992 by athletes for athletes. We are an independent organization that is run by athletes for athletes. We pride ourselves on being the collective voice for Canadian national team athletes.

AthletesCAN focuses on ensuring an athlete-centred sport system by developing athlete leaders who influence sport policy and, as role models, inspire a strong sport culture. Our membership comprises active and recently retired athletes who represent Canada at senior world championships and are currently funded by Sport Canada.

I have been on the AthletesCAN board of directors since 2017. I served as vice-president, and I am currently serving as secretary.

Today I will talk to you about two areas: what we have been working on and have accomplished, and what needs to be done in the future to build a safe environment for all members of our sport system.

In 2019, AthletesCAN conducted a study on abuse in sport with over a thousand respondents. Of these, 75% said “yes” to being exposed to at least one potentially harmful behaviour of maltreatment.

Themes that emerged from this study were performance excellence at all costs; normalization of harm; lack of attention to equity, diversity and inclusion; a culture of fear and silence; and lack of trust in organizations to handle cases and investigations. As a result of this study and the themes, AthletesCAN hosted a national safe sport summit in 2019, where seven consensus statements based on the study and the conversations at the summit were finalized.

Two of the major next steps determined at this summit were to develop a universal code of conduct and to establish an independent third party organization at the national level to conduct investigations. Not only have these two been been achieved, but work has been done on the remaining five consensus statements. AthletesCAN has been using the findings of this study and these statements as guidance for our decision-making and work in the safe sport field.

The UCCMS was published in December 2019, with many revisions since then. It is an incredibly important accomplishment for the sport system. In developing a standard for behaviour within sport across Canada, we now have a framework that can be the foundation for all of our initiatives moving forward.

The Office of the Sport Integrity Commissioner has also recently been launched. OSIC now being in place, combined with the fact that all NSOs are required to sign on, is a testament to the work that has been done in this space at the national level since our study was conducted in 2019. We still have a long road ahead, but progress has already been made.

AthletesCAN feels that what is most important moving forward is to provide education to all stakeholders in the sport system on the forms of maltreatment within sport. This needs to be provided to all athletes, coaches, high-performance directors, NSO staff, CEOs, MSO staff, technical staff, support staff, medical staff, board members and more. They all need to be involved.

We cannot move forward with preventing future maltreatment unless all stakeholders in the sport system are educated on what it actually means and on the duties that are required of everyone to prevent these forms of behaviour. To do this, we need a full-fledged, multi-level educational system approach that is based on research and the principles within the UCCMS.

We cannot solely rely on it being accomplished through e-learning and resources that people can quickly check off their list by clicking a button. We need a dedicated organization that will take charge of developing, building, distributing and maintaining this educational system across the sports landscape at no additional cost to those who take it.

Lastly, and potentially most importantly, compliance needs to be guaranteed in all of these initiatives moving forward with checks to ensure that NSOs are accountable. This also needs to be true for all policies, programs and agreements already in place within the sport system. We cannot rely on the honour system any more within sport to ensure that all these actions are taken by all involved.

In closing, I would like to add that what I have discussed needs to be implemented nationwide. Though it's technically out of the scope of AthletesCAN, we recognize the need for OSIC or an equivalent to be in place across all jurisdictions in Canada. This applies to the educational system that I outlined today as well.

Thank you all for your time and attention to this important topic.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much, Mr. Hedges.

Now the final witness is MacIntosh Ross, assistant professor at Western University, and coordinator of Scholars Against Abuse in Canadian Sport.

Mr. Ross, you have five minutes, please.

11:30 a.m.

Dr. MacIntosh Ross Assistant Professor, Western University, Scholars Against Abuse in Canadian Sport

Thank you.

My name is MacIntosh Ross. I'm the coordinator of Scholars Against Abuse in Canadian Sport. Together, we're over a hundred professors and dozens of graduate and undergraduate students.

The whole purpose of our group has been to echo and amplify the voices of survivors, voices that, when I and some like-minded colleagues started this organization, we felt were already enough to prompt a national inquiry, but why I am specifically involved hasn't really been discussed publicly. It's really pretty simple.

In listening to the brave survivors who came forward seeking an inquiry, I remembered myself as a little boy, when I was just 10 years old. Much like Gordon Stuckless, the infamous Maple Leaf Gardens abuser, a man I trusted tried to lure me into sexual acts with sport. In my case, he exploited my fandom of the goaltender Patrick Roy. He offered me a hockey card that I could never have possibly afforded if I would simply massage his genitals. I was lucky. I said “no” and I was able to leave, but the damage was done, and the damage is still being done. Every time a survivor is ignored when they call for a national inquiry, that part of me, that little boy, fears that there won't be meaningful and sustainable change to this system.

It took me years to open up to my parents. For sport survivors to come forward, it can be an excruciating experience, but they do it because they want this to stop. They want the next generation of athletes to not have to deal with this anymore. They want there to be a safe space for sport in Canada.

At Scholars Against Abuse in Canadian Sport, there are over a hundred of us who stand in agreement, shoulder to shoulder with survivors, saying that there needs to be a national inquiry and that this is a human rights issue from the grassroots right up to the elite level. The abuse is broad. It's racism, ableism, homophobia and sexism. It's overt and systemic. It's experienced by athletes, coaches, officials and even spectators. It's physical and it's psychological. It's completely out of control.

Sport administrators are not equipped to foster the kind of meaningful sustainable change the system needs. The current abuse crisis in Canadian sport can't be solved by existing mechanisms. It won't be solved by Sport Canada, and it won't be solved by some extension of Sport Canada, because it's not a sports issue. It's a human rights issue within sport. If I hurt my knee while lecturing, I'm not going to go to another historian for a diagnosis because it happened in a classroom; I'm going to go to a physician.

Sport can't turn to sport right now. It must turn to human rights experts, health professionals and independent legal experts. We know this. I think we all know this. The Canadian Coalition for the Rights of Children knows this. It's calling for a national inquiry, too, and for good reason.

There's a lot I would like to say, but I'm going to keep it limited. I want to focus on the fact that both the Prime Minister and I are boxers. A lot of people think that boxing is a lonely sport, but that's just not the case. You have your corner tasked with looking out for your best interests.

Politicians, like boxers, sometimes can get caught up in the heat of competition, but sometimes we need our corner to just throw in the towel and save us from ourselves. I hope that Mr. Trudeau would be in the corner of the Canadian people. Throw in the towel on this sport system and save it from itself. It's not an act of surrender. It's not an act of judgment against those involved. It's an act of love—love for athletes, coaches and officials who need you more now than ever. Throw in the towel.

Thank you.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much, Mr. Ross.

That brings to an end the witness testimony. We'll move to the question-and-answer segment. The first segment is for six minutes. Each segment includes the questions and answers, so in the interest of time I will ask everyone to be as crisp and clear as they possibly can.

We will begin with the Conservatives and Marilyn Gladu.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.

I'd especially like to thank you, Ryan, on behalf of the whole committee. We are happy you are here. Sharing your story will prompt real action and give hope to many. Thank you for your testimony today.

To begin, it's clear to me, from looking at all the different witness testimony we've heard, that when people bring forward an accusation of sexual abuse or any kind of situation within the sport, it goes nowhere. There's total protectionism within the sport. There's no action taken. Then they escalate it up to places like OSIC. Nothing happens. It goes to Sport Canada. Nothing happens. It goes to the minister's office. Nothing happens.

It seems clear to me that immediate actions need to be taken, even in advance of a national inquiry, which can take a really long time and cost a lot of money. I was a youth leader for years; I was involved in Sunday school. Whenever there was any kind of allegation of abuse, it went to the police for a report. There was a registry. People would have to go and get checked out by the police to ensure that no complaints had been brought against them in order for them to continue to be in place.

When I hear stories of coaches who have abused and then have moved across the country and gotten another job, and of CEOs who have done nothing when they've seen abuse and gotten another job, it's clear to me that it needs to go outside the sport sphere.

I'll start with you, Ryan. Do you agree with that? What would your view be?

11:35 a.m.

Co-founder, Gymnasts for Change Canada, As an Individual

Ryan Sheehan

Yes, I agree with that. I reported mine to the police. Mine happened in different jurisdictions, so I reported to two different police. One set of police said that my best course of action would be to file a civil suit, and the other one is still ongoing. A lot of these are jurisdictional issues with the police in terms of where it happens. I know for a fact that there were other police reports on my abuser and nobody did anything about it.

I'm not sure how to fix the sport system. I think a lot of the solutions that are offered that aren't a national inquiry are band-aid solutions. We need to look at the NSOs and what's above the NSOs, not just hiring people at an NSO level and hoping it trickles down.