Canadian Heritage Committee on March 30th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Good afternoon, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 73 of the House of Commons Standing on Canadian Heritage.

I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of Thursday, June 23, 2022.

While public health authorities and the Board of Internal Economy no longer require mask wearing indoors, masks and respirators are still excellent tools to prevent the spread of COVID-19 and other respiratory diseases, so their use is encouraged.

I want to take this opportunity to remind all participants of some basic housekeeping. You cannot take screenshots or photos of your screen. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website, so you don't really need to take screenshots.

There is a globe at the bottom of your screen for those who are on Zoom, and, if you press it, you can get translation in English or French, or the original audio.

Any questions or discussion should be directed through the chair, and please do not speak until I recognize you by name.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, September 20, 2022, this committee is meeting to continue its study on safe sport in Canada.

Our witnesses today—

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Madam Chair, before we get into that, I have a point of order. It's Kevin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes. I'd recognize that radio voice anywhere, Kevin.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thanks to everyone around the table.

As you know, we moved a motion Monday asking for the report that Henein Hutchison Robitaille gave to Hockey Canada several weeks ago, redacted by the law clerk, and we all have notice now that the letter is not here, which is a major disappointment.

Seeing further reports today that, in fact, the government may reinstate funding to Hockey Canada makes it even more of a challenge now. We've read the letter, and I'm very disappointed by it. I would like to have 20 minutes after the meeting closes so we can discuss in camera what we should do to bring the next action forward.

I'm just going to say this. I have seen names being mentioned in several news articles in the last two days, and it's not us, because we've not seen anything. We don't have the reports. The media wants this, but more importantly for me, Hockey Canada has to be transparent, and I'm really disappointed in the letter we received, Madam Chair, from Andrew Winton.

I would like to go in camera for the last 20 minutes of today, after we're done with Canada Soccer, to discuss what we should do going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Waugh. I think your motion was passed unanimously when it was brought forward. Is there anyone opposing 20 minutes at the end of the meeting to discuss these issues? If you are, please put your hand up.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Michael MacPherson]

Madam Chair, Peter Julian has his hand up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

On the same point of order, I was quite perturbed, as Mr. Waugh is, that an order from this committee was disregarded by Hockey Canada. You'll recall that when we originally started to convene Hockey Canada to answer questions, they were reluctant to answer many questions because of the report's coming forward.

It seems to me disingenuous that they weren't willing to answer questions then. Now they seem to be less interested in providing the report to us, though we have the ability to ensure that we get a copy of that report.

I think this committee has worked in a very admirable way, in a way that is very rare on Parliament Hill, with all members of all parties working together. Certainly we've had information disclosed to us that we have not revealed, so I support Mr. Waugh's suggestion that we have an in camera discussion later on in this meeting to resolve that, but my feeling is that Hockey Canada has repeatedly spoken of the report in the context of not being able to provide information until the report is completed, and I believe we should be pushing Hockey Canada to provide that report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You are supporting Mr. Waugh's suggestion.

I'm asking if there is anyone who is opposed to Mr. Waugh's suggestion.

Anthony, go ahead.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I do want to get to Canada Soccer and the witnesses.

I'm in support of Mr. Waugh's proposal to go in camera, but I want to just correct—I have to, I feel compelled to correct. Hockey Canada in their letter did not say they would not provide the report. They said if the committee wanted the report, despite the concerns they expressed to the committee, they would provide the report, and I don't want it to be unfairly portrayed that they refused to provide the report. The letter is very clear that they will provide the report. They wanted to express concerns to the committee.

I believe there is a way to manage receiving the report and also addressing the confidentiality concerns that perhaps Hockey Canada has. Certainly nobody on this committee wishes to impede potential prosecutions by the London police or by Hockey Canada itself investigating its own players, and I'm sure there's a way that we often use to keep the documents confidential by viewing them in certain ways that can alleviate everybody's concerns.

I just didn't want anybody to believe that Hockey Canada had said they refused to provide it. They said they would provide it. They just wanted to express concerns.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Anthony.

I want to reassure the committee that, if you recall, before we began the study on Hockey Canada, we met with the law clerk and the law clerk explained to us that we could get confidential information and maintain confidentiality.

I just want to reiterate what Anthony was saying.

Sébastien, go ahead.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Obviously, I am adding my voice to the voices of those who want us to be able to hold this meeting.

I think it is necessary that the committee also affirm its wishes. As well, I would like us to address the question of renewed funding for Hockey Canada and of public funding. As I understand it, the requirements seem very weak to me. If renewing the funding creates a precedent, I think we should discuss it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Sébastien.

That still does not tell me if there is unanimous consent or if there is opposition to Mr. Waugh's motion.

Is there consent? I see your thumb up, Sébastien.

Is anyone opposed?

No?

I think he's just asking to discuss it in camera; that's all.

Clerk, with everyone in agreement, we will end the meeting with our witnesses with 20 minutes to spare. Can 15 minutes do, Kevin?

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Go ahead, Mike.

[The Clerk]

Madam Chair, it takes about five to seven minutes for us to switch over to in camera.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay. It will be 20 minutes then.

We will now continue to listen to our witnesses, and as I was about to say, our witnesses today, as individuals, are Nick Bontis, former president, Canada Soccer, who is with us by video conference; Vittorio Montagliani, president, Confederation of North, Central America and Caribbean Association Football, by video conference; and Sean Heffernan, chief financial officer, by video conference.

Witnesses, I just want to let you know that if you are here as an individual, you will have five minutes. If you are here as a group, the group has five minutes, and I will give you a 30-second shout-out—and I mean that literally—when you have 30 seconds left, so you can wrap up your statement.

We will begin now with opening remarks from Dr. Nick Bontis for five minutes.

The floor is yours.

[Dr. Nick Bontis, Former President, Canada Soccer, As an Individual]

Good afternoon, and thank you, Madam Chair and members of this committee, for the invitation to testify today.

My name is Nick Bontis. I am a professor of strategy at the DeGroote School of Business at McMaster University, where I have been teaching for 25 years.

Outside of my university duties, I have devoted most of my volunteer time to soccer. I was first elected to the board of directors of Canada Soccer in 2012 and most recently had the privilege to serve as president.

I stepped down last month as Canada Soccer was in advanced talks on a new collective bargaining agreement with the men's and women's national teams. I believe that this agreement will be a landmark achievement that sets Canada apart from virtually every other FIFA member association in the world. I advocated for pay equity publicly, from the first day I was elected president, and did so throughout my term.

Serving as a volunteer for Canada Soccer and witnessing the progress and achievements of Canada's national teams have given me some of the proudest moments of my life.

I've been playing soccer for 46 years and it has contributed so much to who I am today. It guided me during my younger years at the youth club level, and it allowed me to develop my leadership skills when I played at university and as an adult. Even in recent years, soccer is still a social pastime that keeps me fit with my fellow old-timers on the weekends.

My experience as a youth coach and...how sports helps and shapes how young people develop mirrors my passion as a lifelong educator in a safe environment.

With this in mind, I wanted to address Christine Sinclair's comments at this committee when she testified a few weeks ago. While I do not recall using the language she referenced, I don't dispute it, and my exact choice of words is not the point. What matters is that she felt that I treated her concerns disrespectfully. I feel terrible about making her feel this way, and I have since communicated with Christine and her agent to apologize personally. It was a mistake. I take responsibility for it, and I regret it.

Few people have done more for soccer or women's sport in this country than Christine. She has not only inspired millions of young soccer players around the world; she inspired me as a player, as a coach and as an administrator. Unlocking the full potential of players who want to follow in Christine's footsteps was a large part of why I got involved with Canada Soccer.

Before I conclude, I wanted to express my thanks to the chair and members of this committee for allowing me to delay my appearance until today. I think members of Parliament will have a special understanding for the circumstances that made it extremely difficult for me to testify last week.

As you may know from media reports, for the past 14 months I have been the target of sustained harassment by a disturbed individual who issued threats and abuse toward me, my wife and my three children. During that time I received over 280 emails; my wife was subjected to numerous abusive phone calls, and my children received unwanted messages and were subjected to social media abuse.

Ultimately, I worked with a panic button under my desk in my office here at McMaster. Plainclothes police officers were stationed in the atrium of my building, as the harasser continued to ignore warnings and the cease and desist order that was issued to him. The situation escalated and intensified significantly in recent months, to the point at which a judge issued a search warrant; law enforcement confirmed his online identity, and he was ultimately charged with criminal harassment. However, days before he was set to appear, I was notified by the primary investigator that he had succumbed to his mental illness by taking his own life.

The legal matter was scheduled to be heard in court today. Those of us who aren't used to being in the public glare read about this kind of situation, but nothing can prepare you for it. Every day I worried about the safety of my wife and kids. This may be something that politicians and their families can relate to, but I was not prepared for this. It was not in the job description.

I'm still processing these extremely distressing events. Unfortunately, the abuse continues by others. I appreciate the committee's patience in allowing me to defer my appearance until today. I want to thank Madam Chair for her compassion in my case.

As for today's hearing, I welcome the opportunity to talk about Canada Soccer. I believe the future of our sport has never been brighter, and there is so much to look forward to in the next few years. We have an amazing opportunity to unlock the potential of the millions of Canadians who love and support our game.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Montagliani, please.

[Vittorio Montagliani, President, Confederation of North, Central America and Caribbean Association Football, As an Individual]

Good afternoon, and thank you, Madam Chair and committee members, for the invitation to speak to you today.

My name is Victor Montagliani. I've had the privilege of being involved in soccer—or football, as I call it—in this country and internationally for over 30 years. I began as a player and later served in various roles as a volunteer for the game, beginning as a grassroots coach and in other positions in the province of British Columbia. I was eventually elected to the volunteer position of president of the Canadian Soccer Association in 2012.

Given what I have observed and experienced in the evolution of the game over the past 30 years, I want to briefly provide the committee with my perspective on the development and heritage of football in Canada.

For as long as I've been involved, football in this country has fought an uphill battle. As a sport that has long roots among immigrant communities in our country—like the one I grew up in, in east Vancouver—the domestic game has faced challenges in attracting meaningful support from this country's media and corporate establishment. It is not about participation or enthusiasm. We know we are the biggest participation sport in Canada.

During my five years as volunteer president of Canada Soccer—from 2012 to 2017—the lack of interest and support from media corporations meant that Canada Soccer had to spend its own money for our women's and men's national teams to be shown on networks such as TSN, Rogers and CBC, rather than allocating that to the grassroots. To be clear, these expenditures, over a decade, allowed our fans to catch 95% of Christine Sinclair's goals and 100% of Dwayne De Rosario's goals, which would not otherwise have been the case.

However, it is important to know where we stood in 2011 and early 2012. We had no sovereignty and no equity in our own game. We had absolutely no domestic media market. We had very little professionalization and zero industry for football in Canada. We had zero relevancy in the international arena, especially in FIFA and Concacaf. We needed to shift our mindset and shift it fast.

Since then, we've become founding partners of the NWSL with U.S. Soccer and the Mexican federation, subsidizing the salaries of our women's national team players so they could prepare for the 2015 women's World Cup and the 2016 Olympics.

We hosted the women's World Cup in 2015—still, to this day, the greatest women's World Cup in history. We embarked on bidding for the 2026 men's World Cup, which we successfully won in 2018. We created an environment in which investors could come in and start the Canadian Premier League, which has also now set the groundwork for what we hope will be further investors for our Canadian women's professional league.

Of course, this has all been underpinned by the fantastic players in our country—our women's team and our men's team, which have won bronze, bronze, gold and, obviously, the qualification for Qatar in 2022.

Of course, Canadian corporations are private entities and can make choices as they wish, but it was obvious, when I was president of Canada Soccer, that we needed to take a different route and seek out new commercial partners—not only to encourage investment but also to encourage ambition. That meant looking beyond the usual suspects to find new, more dynamic partners with an appetite and a willingness to build domestic football for the long term.

The arrival of the new streaming platforms has provided great news for unlocking commercial opportunities that will help the game in Canada, as well as for Concacaf and FIFA, when the next rights cycles come up. Not only are these platforms shaking up the market; they are also enabling us to make long-term investments in the areas that have held the game back in Canada, namely infrastructure.

The discussions between Canada Soccer and what became Canadian Soccer Business were focused on providing long-term benefits for the growth of the game. No one would ever claim that every decision made or action taken was perfect. However, we must recognize the sacrifice and courage of the Canada Soccer family of volunteers, coaches and, ultimately, fantastic players. This has allowed both the men's and women's programs to break through the tier one ceiling of global football in the last decade.

We have the women's World Cup around the corner and, now, the men qualifying for the Concacaf Nations League for the first time in our history. Canada's future in this sport is very bright.

With that context, I look forward to discussing football with this committee.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Montagliani. I'm sorry I did not recognize that the “g” in your name is silent, so I apologize for mispronouncing it.

[Vittorio Montagliani]

That's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We will now go to the final witness, who is Sean Heffernan, chief financial officer.

Mr. Heffernan, you have five minutes, please.

[Sean Heffernan, Chief Financial Officer, Canada Soccer]

Hello, Madam Chair and members of the committee.

I'm Sean Heffernan, chief financial officer at Canada Soccer.

As you know, Canada Soccer is the governing body for the sport of soccer in our country. As a member of Canada Soccer's senior management team, I support Canada Soccer's mission to grow soccer in our country from the grassroots to the national levels.

My core responsibility is to oversee Canada Soccer's finances, including financial operations, planning, risks, reporting and record-keeping. I'm also responsible for reporting to the Canada Soccer board of directors on financial topics. Additionally, since the association has a small team, I give general business advice about operational topics to the general secretary.

My remarks today focus on three areas specifically: one, my role in the negotiations of the agreement with Canadian Soccer Business, or CSB; two, Canada Soccer's financial statements and filings; and three, Canada Soccer's transparency in providing the senior national teams with financial information.

With regard to the CSB agreement, the agreement provides valuable broadcast and streaming opportunities for both senior national teams, guarantees annual payments to Canada Soccer, and has secured new partners for investment in grassroots and high-performance soccer in Canada.

From December 1, 2018, until the agreement was approved on February 7, 2019, I was a member of the Canada Soccer negotiating team for the agreement. Prior to that, I provided advice on earlier drafts of the agreement. The negotiating team worked on four specific, limited issues for the agreement: term and renewal, signatories to sponsorship contracts, control of the Canada Soccer brand, and determining acceptable broadcast mediums.

Neither the negotiating team nor I had decision-making power about the agreement. Rather, the team negotiated on the previously mentioned issues, presented the negotiation outcomes to the board of directors, and answered questions from the board.

As has been noted publicly, including to this committee by Canada Soccer's general secretary, the CSB agreement has some shortcomings, including the length of the agreement, the unilateral term-extension option of the CSB, and the limited ability of Canada Soccer to share in upside revenue. To resolve those issues and build a healthier financial future for soccer in our country, Canada Soccer is developing a revenue-focused operating plan and holding discussions to amend the CSB agreement.

With respect to the financial statements and filings, Canada Soccer has always valued transparency, and our intention is to always be compliant with all applicable laws. As such, I want to speak to Canada Soccer's filing with Corporations Canada, as the topic came up at the committee on March 20. I assure you that those filings were made every year during my tenure as chief financial officer. While Canada Soccer has submitted annual Corporations Canada filings indicating changes in board membership and other administrative requirements under those regulations, our filings should have included the financial statements, which we did not provide. Canada Soccer's financial statements are now uploaded on Corporations Canada's website.

The late submission of those statements to Corporations Canada is regrettable, and I accept responsibility for that error, but Canada Soccer has otherwise always exercised a high standard of financial transparency. This is further illustrated by Canada Soccer's practice of publishing audited financial statements on our website. Those statements are also provided to Sport Canada, our members and our partners.

Finally, I wish to touch on my role in providing the senior national teams with financial information related to Canada Soccer. As the committee heard on March 20, Canada Soccer has been negotiating collective bargaining agreements with the men's and women's national teams since June 2022. Those agreements are based on the core principle of equal pay and will compensate each team at a world-class level.

During those negotiations, I helped provide the teams and their representatives with detailed financial information, audited financial statements and breakdowns of Canada Soccer's spending and budgeting processes. I continue to work on providing all follow-up information requested by the teams. The players and their representatives have always been welcome to ask me any questions.

I know the government is considering new reporting and transparency requirements for national sport organizations, and Canada Soccer would welcome direction from the Minister of Sport on that topic.

Thank you very much for your attention, and I look forward to answering your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Heffernan.

We now go to the part of the meeting where there's a question and answer session. The question and answer will be included in the time; they are not separate times.

For the first round, which is a six-minute question and answer session, we begin with the Conservatives and Kevin Waugh.

Kevin, you have six minutes.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our guests.

Mr. Bontis, I'll start with you. Why did you step down? Was it after the meeting here in Ottawa, when the provincial associations demanded that you leave as president of Canada Soccer?