Evidence of meeting #76 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was athletes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Whistle-blower and Professional Soccer Player, As an Individual
Yes. I just want to say, first of all, thank you to the committee members.
I know, just from watching—especially you, with Canada Soccer, at that hearing—that it's been well established. Whether it's the McLaren report putting all of the people at the scene of the crime in the Birarda case.... It's not even a question. Victor Montagliani and Bob Lenarduzzi are names in black and white that this report found. Then you have people sitting here, like Victor Montagliani, saying that he wasn't involved. Yes, you were. In that report, it said you were involved. Those are facts.
I think, again, what you uncovered also about the finances.... It's so comical. It's almost a blueprint of how dysfunctional it all is. Again, the minutes were not there. It was not signed off on, yet this agreement still exists, and the federation is essentially bankrupt. The future of Canadian players for the next 20 years....
I'm in Ireland, playing right now with Canadian players in a women's league. There's no league in Canada. People have to go over there. That is all part of the CSB. It's all been established.
I think the question now is that there's obviously a huge issue with what happens now. This has all been established. It's not a question of this: “Victor, were you there, or weren't you?” He was there. The evidence has proven that he was there. I just think that is all highlighting, again, this lack of what happens now. The CSB deal is not legitimate, because they did not follow the processes. What happens now? Victor Montagliani and others were at the scene of this whole thing. They're still involved in soccer. What now?
I think that's what we need to ask ourselves. I think in terms of our case it's quite clear. There's been massive financial mismanagement. There's been massive, egregious behaviour with the Birarda situation. I don't think they're going to be the ones to provide solutions, accountability or transparency, because they've been the ones.... We've had to put in so much to even just get here today—after 15 years of fighting for all this.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Thank you, Ms. McCormack.
We'll move on for two and a half minutes to Mr. Lemire of the Bloc party.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Da Silva Rondeau, you've given us a lot to think about, including something that was mentioned today, by which I mean the all-consuming pursuit of the gold medal, which has an enormous impact on the entire funding system. I asked for members of the Own the Podium organization, among others, to come and testify before this committee in the near future.
How do you explain their inaction with respect to the behaviour of the sports federations? Former members of Own the Podium have told us that the organization had trouble determining what the sports federations had done with the money they were given.
Can you tell us about any connections you see with respect to Sport Canada's responsibilities in all of that, and the role of the minister? Why is nothing happening?
Olympian and Teacher, As an Individual
I think officers are supposed to be monitoring what's happening within the federations, but I've never seen any. Part of the responsibility falls to them, meaning what happens within the federations. Currently, though, this role has shifted to the Own the Podium organization and of course, the athletes, via the complaints system and the current mechanisms we are familiar with.
Monitoring the federations through complaint mechanisms has fallen to the athletes. However, it's too demanding for us. Own the Podium does its share by attempting to get the federations to assume responsibility for their actions, but its power is limited. The rest of the power lies with Sport Canada.
What's happening there? Where are these safety officers?
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
There's something that strikes me as particularly shocking. I get the impression that people like you who dare to speak out are sued, based on what I have understood, or involved in out-of-court settlements owing to the notorious non-disclosure agreements. This means that the toxic culture of silence continues and the offenders are never held responsible.
In what way could our system be different? What can we do to protect people like you?
Olympian and Teacher, As an Individual
Right now, I can find a solution to every situation I've experienced. But I can't suggest solutions for the future, for things I'm not aware of. That's why a national inquiry is absolutely essential.
How can you come up with solutions to problems that you're not really thoroughly familiar with? I can come up with solutions for situations I encounter—and I've told you about them—whether in terms of protection or what happens with the complaint and whistle-blowing mechanisms. What I'm talking about here is the fact that it mustn't be taken away from the federations and transferred to the justice system. That's one solution.
I'm only a teacher, but teaching is nevertheless very important in our society. I'm a teacher, and I know things, but the kinds of knowledge at issue here are not something I have. It will therefore be up to you to find solutions.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Thank you, Sébastien.
We'll move on to two and a half minutes for Mr. Julian.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Ms. Mason, when you talked about the situation with Kyle Foster, I was absolutely shocked. The idea that these abuses would happen and the only protection that Fencing Canada would offer was a no-contact rule for some of the athletes.... It seems to me that you might as well be saying to an abuser, “Just go find new victims.”
How can anyone feel safe in that kind of an environment, when a national sport organization does nothing but pay lip service to protecting victims?
Fencing for Change Canada
Well, I think the simple answer is that people don't feel safe. People don't feel safe coming forward when they experience maltreatment. I think stories like Kyle Foster's, unfortunately, are very common in Canadian fencing. He is not the only person who has mistreated athletes. It's across all of our provinces.
This year, the CFF has not only consistently and repeatedly mishandled those cases but bullied our athletes into silence when they have tried to do something. It's difficult, still, for a lot of people to come forward, and it speaks, I think, to a larger culture of permitting these behaviours because those coaches get results.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Ms. Neil, on that question we also heard through the Hockey Canada hearings how Hockey Canada needed to clean house. Canada Soccer has had a couple of resignations, but is it time for Canada Soccer to clean house so that we can build a national sports organization with our soccer players that protects athletes and keeps our values?
Former Canadian Women’s National Soccer Team Player and Assistant Coach, As an Individual
Yes, I think transformation needs to happen. Quite often, that's like a forest fire burning through something so it can renew itself, so I would say that transformation needs to happen through new people.
I know board members in the past who have challenged and have received physical threats from other board members when they're speaking up for transparency. I've heard of yet another board member who was asking for transparency and accountability around the Bob Birarda situation. They brought in a lawyer to say that she could not reach out to really empathize with the former U-20s.
I mean, this culture gets passed on from one to the next because it gets very homogenized. Even within the present culture, if somebody speaks out for what is right and moral, they are silenced, and that teaches the next generation coming in that this is the appropriate way to behave. This is very unhealthy.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Kevin Waugh
Thank you, Ms. Neil.
I'm going to go to a two-minute round, and then we'll wrap it up.
Ms. Gladu, from the Conservatives, you have two minutes.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I have a final question, then, for our witnesses. It's coming up on a year that OSIC has been in place, so is it helping, is it what we need, and will it address these issues? Anybody can weigh in.
Whistle-blower and Professional Soccer Player, As an Individual
I'll go first. I think OSIC absolutely is not even close to a solution. I think it's representative of, again, a sport system washing within itself to try to appear to be solving a problem, but in reality its exactly the same people, if you look again at the links between all the different organizations. No, I don't think at all that OSIC is an answer.
Conservative
Former Canadian Women’s National Soccer Team Player and Assistant Coach, As an Individual
Very much, yes.
Attorney and Victim Advocate, As an Individual
I would echo that. OSIC has a lot of the same problems that our U.S. safe sport system has, and I work with athletes trying to navigate that system all the time. The proper survivor protections are not in place, and the investigative teams are not skilled. It easily takes two or three times the length of time that it ought to take to complete an investigation, while the athlete is left unprotected and there are no whistle-blower protections in place.
The same things that you have heard these athletes articulate are the same problems we are dealing with in the U.S., and it is so deeply retraumatizing to survivors and so deeply unfair to ask them to navigate a system that is going to leave them more crushed than when they went in.
Former Canadian Women’s National Soccer Team Player and Assistant Coach, As an Individual
I don't have much more to add to that. I agree.
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
