Canadian Heritage Committee on April 24th, 2023

[Rachael Denhollander]

There are some changes that have taken place that I'm grateful to see. There has been a significant amount of regime change in USA Gymnastics, for example.

I'll be honest with you. Most of the problems you are facing right now are problems that, to an extent, you inherited by moving our safe sport system into Canada. Our safe sport system is incredibly broken. It is underfunded. It lacks proper victim protections. It has lots of policies in place from a top-down level that make it very difficult for our athletes to report, and there has been a stunning lack of transparency in our athletic organizations.

When you speak to the gymnasts in the United States, they will tell you that USAG, to a large degree, has lacked the types of transparent assessments that we have asked for. This is contrasted with U.K. gymnasts, who felt that the Whyte report, in general, at least gave them a voice. It gave them the opportunity to say, “Yes, we feel like you have really understood what's gone on.”

There are some models that I have set up in the United States that work primarily with very large and complex religious denominations. These processes have been much more robust and, therefore, much more successful than what has taken place so far in our athletic organizations.

Really, the key is that you want the survivors to be able to come out and say, “We have been hurt, and we believe these organizations have truly grappled with the complexities of what led to our abuse.” The reason you want survivors to be able to say that is, first, it is critical to their healing and we have a responsibility, when we cause harm, to aid in the healing process. Second, the heartbeat of a survivor is to know that their story means something and that what has happened to them is going to make the next generation safer.

It is entirely possible to set up processes whereby both the leaders of the organization who are heading in the right direction come out and say, “That was so helpful for us and we now understand what we need to do,” and the survivors can say, “We feel like we have been heard, and we have confidence that the truth has come out and that there's an understanding of what's taken place.”

You then have the long road ahead of you of rebuilding, but you have the knowledge base for what went wrong, so the diagnostics have been done and the reform can be accurate and effective. That provides closure for the survivor community and a path forward that is effective, makes good use of resources and accurately protects the next generation.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to turn to you next, Mr. Wallbridge. I believe I heard you say in your opening statement that provinces have abandoned athletes. You were talking about basic workplace rights that are required.

When we go forward with a national inquiry in this country, what will the onus be on the provinces? Can you talk a bit about how that might work, and how that co-operation should work?

[David Wallbridge]

Yes. What has happened in virtually every province—there are one or two exceptions—is employees are covered under the minimum standards legislation. It's the labour code or employment standards, however you want to describe it. Federally, it's part III of the Canada Labour Code. What has happened across the board is that players are exempted from either the entirety of the code or sections of the code. In some jurisdictions, it explicitly lists hockey player employees, and in others, like in my province of Nova Scotia, it says just “athletes”. That is a problem.

Listening to the witnesses talk about their particular situations, and then imagining the work I do for employees.... When you take away any workplace rights and you take away any means to enforce those rights, a culture can perpetuate that results in a whole variety of harm.

I would hope that this committee looks at this huge gap that's been created for athlete players as part of the proposal for an inquiry, and that in your report you say that this has to be on the table. You'd have to pull the provinces in.

The other component to look at—and I suggested this in my initial presentation—is what authority the federal government has to assert jurisdiction in the absence of the provinces' participation. There are means under the Canada Labour Code and the Constitution Act whereby that could be appropriate. Obviously, these are very delicate constitutional questions that the government would want and need to get advice on, but they have to be there.

You can't allow this culture of exploitation, whether it's in amateur sport or in professional sport, to continue for anybody, particularly for any employee players.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Wallbridge.

We'll move now to two and a half minutes to the Bloc, with Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr Chair.

I'll continue with Mr. Wallbridge.

Mr. Wallbridge, I'm going to repeat the adage used last summer by Ms. Stéphanie Grammond of La Presse to describe what's happening today in all sports: the fish rots from the head. What she is alluding to is the sickening smell rising from the accumulation of scandals in all sports. What happened at Hockey Canada is happening everywhere else. It's clear that our system is broken.

In the midst of all this, Hockey Canada quickly reviewed its funding, without any public accountability being required. The minister or one of the Sport Canada structures took full authority for approval.

What do you think of the decision to provide funding to Hockey Canada again?

[David Wallbridge]

I was surprised to read about that in the news, because it seemed like it was a return of funding, but none of the questions were answered, and the work of this committee was not concluded. It was very surprising.

Again, much of my experience is employment law and workplace related, but what you can clearly see is that there's a culture of exploitation that runs through the ranks, right through to organizations like the Canadian Hockey League, where the power imbalance is incredibly dramatic.

As that culture continues to perpetuate, the players live in that system. They are victims of that system, and they move on to then become part of that in a broader sense. Until that gets broken down, through the investigations that this committee is doing, through bringing in.... As was mentioned, either you do it through voluntary means, where people just want to be better.... I agree with Ms. Denhollander when she said that sometimes there just needs to be a law that's enforceable, where people know what those rules are and the people who are affected, the players across the board, have the power to have those things enforced.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Wallbridge.

I'm going to conclude by saying that I really like your idea of developing legislation to give rights to athletes, like those set out in part III of the Canada Labour Code. That could be one way of restoring a balance that would make sports healthier and safer.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire. You're right on time.

We'll now go to the NDP, with Peter Julian, for two and a half minutes, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Denhollander, I asked the question to other witnesses who were here about what Sports Canada and the sports minister need to do right now, in addition to the call for the public inquiry that we've all heard.

What do you believe the minister needs to be insisting on and obliging Gymnastics Canada to do?

[Rachael Denhollander]

One of the primary steps that, hopefully, can be taken is putting anti-SLAPP type of legislation into place, or protections into place so that survivors are able to act as whistle-blowers without fear of retaliation, without fear of being left unprotected when their abusers come after them, and without fear of having to forfeit their point system and their careers. Protections should be put in place to allow survivors to speak up, and to do so safely.

Honestly, again, the most important thing that anybody can do is look at how we communicate on issues of abuse when the message is.... I really appreciated the most recent questions asking, “What do you think about the money being returned to Hockey Canada?” There really hasn't been transparency there. When that type of action is taken, when any type of action is taken, it is a communication. It is a value statement.

When you have communications taking place, and actions taking place, that are making value statements, we're not going to require transparency. We are not going to require honesty and accountability. We are not going to require proper diagnostics. When that is taking place, what the government is essentially saying is that it matters, but not actually. We don't like child abuse, but we don't not like it enough to say, “Hey, we are not going to fund these systems while they are harming our athletes and children.”

The most important thing that leadership can do is communicate very clearly in words and actions that this matters, that we are going to find the truth and we are going to tell it. We are going to use whatever resources are at our disposal to make it safe for those athletes and children to come forward, so that we can find out what has happened to them.

What we say and do is a communication on our values.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Da Silva Rondeau, you mentioned whistle-blowers. Ms. Denhollander just spoke about the importance of protecting information and striking a better balance in terms of resources when it comes to whistle-blowers.

What ought to be done immediately to protect whistle-blowers in a system that is so lopsided?

[Myriam Da Silva Rondeau]

It's simply preventing the transfer the sports system to a justice system. All complaints and all whistle-blowing within the sports system should remain there and prevented from entering each province's public justice system

Quebec's justice system is different from Ontario's. Each province operates differently, but it's still possible to take whatever is happening within the sports system and use it against anyone through the public justice system. That has to stop. Complaints and whistle-blowing within the current existing sports system must simply be kept within that system.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you very much.

We'll move now to Ms. Gladu for the Conservative Party.

Marilyn, you have five minutes.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for their courage and their testimony today.

I took note that each of you asked for a national public inquiry. I heard Ms. Hepfner say “when” the government conducts an inquiry, so I think the minister needs to weigh in on this. She's been hugely silent.

I took note of your comments, Ms. Mason and Ms. McCormack, that she has been absent in terms of action. She has known about all of the things that are going on in these various sporting organizations, and continues to fund without concrete actions.

There are some actions that we've heard could be done while an inquiry is being held. They include vulnerable sector checks for every coach and person who's involved. This is something that happens in most charitable organizations across the country. There's also the reporting of sexual abuse to the police. It's a criminal offence. These organizations should not be investigating it themselves. As well, a registry would prevent these predators from going from one place to another and continuing the cycle of abuse.

There's anti-SLAPP legislation, making protection for whistle-blowers and ranking systems that are objective. Then I think there's something to be done in governance, because it's clear that although there's governance in all of these organizations, it's not working.

Ms. Mason, do you have some comments about the governance? I know you have an opinion here.

[Emily Mason]

Yes. As I think we've mentioned already about the governance of the Canadian Fencing Federation, they have an immense responsibility here to take accountability for all the past misconduct that's occurred and all the misconduct that has continued. Specifically, I think they need to take accountability for the appointment of Igor Gantsevich as high performance director.

On a broader scale, there needs to be a widespread change, not only in selection policies but also in reporting policies, so that it is safe for survivors to come forward, and they feel supported. It needs to be trauma-informed.

With those two things together, I think it's a good start. It's a good start.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I also want to talk about retribution. We've heard a lot about people coming forward and telling their stories, how difficult and traumatizing that is. On top of that, they are punished. They lose their spot, or in some cases there are other kinds of retribution.

Ms. Rondeau, am I correct that you're being sued as a result of coming forward?

[Myriam Da Silva Rondeau]

Yes.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Are you allowed to describe the circumstances of how this came about?

[Myriam Da Silva Rondeau]

I am not. This is why I am being sued. It's to silence me as a victim.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Ms. Neil, could you talk about retribution in soccer?

[Andrea Neil]

I can draw upon personal experience where everything was going A-okay; actually, it was not okay.

I had reported the Bob Birarda situation. A few months later, I became an assistant coach, and things were seemingly okay. I was offered contracts, and I was offered help to get my coaching certification. After I helped the head coach come forward—there was discrepancy and a lack of ethics within the women's national team program—then the certification was blocked. Money was also blocked for me.

What I saw was what I would consider institutional gaslighting towards the head coach and making her job so difficult moving forward. She couldn't get information, the correct information, or other information was dumped on her. She could not chart the course appropriately and could never grab hold of the ship to chart its course.

You think that people coming forward talking about ethical situations.... Well, that person was given a promotion while she was given great difficulty. The whistle-blowers coming forward are trying to say you're way off course. They should be held in a supportive environment, and instead are looked on as the problems.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I'm very concerned about the heads of organizations—multiple heads we have heard, and names listed today and then names in other sessions—who are part of problem and not part of the solution but are still at the top of the governance. The Minister of Sport, who is at the top of that pyramid, needs to take some action to address that.

Ms. McCormack, you mentioned in your testimony something about silent complicity.

[The Chair]

It will have to be quick.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Could you expand on what you mean by that?

[Ciara McCormack]

Again, when you have power to change something and you don't do something, I think you are contributing to the problem, whether that's on a micro level, with our situation with Bob Birarda—the number of people who were aware of his predatory behaviour and did nothing—or now, at a macro level, with the Minister of Sport or whoever would be the one to pull the trigger to call for a national inquiry.

When you don't do something, you are complicit, and that is a huge part of the abuse. It's enabling abuse every time you don't say something or do something and you have the power to, and the abuse continues.