Canadian Heritage Committee on May 15th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.

I'm going to the New Democrat Party with Peter Julian for six minutes, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses. We appreciate their presence here today and their testimonies.

The fact is that our national sports organizations have been in crisis for a year now. As my colleague Mr. Lemire said, we are seeing a growing number of revelations that are causing tremendous harm to public trust in the national sport system. In addition to the cases of sexual abuse and sexual violence there is also the whole issue of financial transparency.

You all mentioned being in favour of a public inquiry. It is important. I think that is a recommendation that some people around the table will promote when the time comes to produce our report. It is essential.

On the topic of financial transparency, it is also a matter of protecting the victims and not requiring them to sign agreements that muzzle them. That is also something we need to discuss.

I want to ask each witness these questions around financial transparency that we have seen, notably with Hockey Canada and Canada Soccer. They have stunned Canadians from coast to coast to coast.

Many sports organizations continue to use non-disclosure agreements to muzzle victims from speaking out if they so choose. An NDA should not be constructed in such a way that victims are unable to speak out if they so choose. We benefit, in this climate of crisis we have with national sports organizations, from victims telling us their stories if they so choose.

My question to all three organizations is, what should the federal government be doing to ensure financial transparency? We cannot have, as we've seen from testimony here at the committee, secret funds—funds that are hidden and not available either to members of the organization or to the public—or agreements that are signed, where it is not clear there's been transparency, even though, ultimately, it has cost the organization a lot.

Secondly, should the federal government be insisting that victims should be free to speak out if they so choose? Should the government ensure that any national sports organization does not impose an NDA on victims that does not allow them to speak out if they so choose?

I'll ask all three organizations those two questions.

[Jeremy Luke]

From our perspective at the CCES, it really leads to the need for an independent public inquiry that is expert driven on the issues of maltreatment and abuse in the sport system as a whole, and how it functions. It should be able to identify the types of issues you're speaking to and produce a series of recommendations. We can then hold the sport system accountable to implement them, so that we don't see the issues you're speaking to.

In the short term, the announcement by the minister last week was positive around the mandatory requirement to follow the sport governance code. Her announcement on NDAs and the AthletesCAN agreement was positive as well.

I would offer those two thoughts in response to your question.

[Anne Merklinger]

We as leaders all bear a responsibility for what has happened. We all bear responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen again.

We would certainly support an inquiry, but I suggest it be an inquiry into the entire sport system, not one limited to safe sport. I believe the issues related to safe sport are symptoms of a much bigger problem for the sport system in Canada. It's under-resourced. It lacks leadership, and it is very fragmented. We would certainly support an inquiry that looks at the entire sport system.

I also—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I'm sorry. Could you clarify that a bit more, Ms. Merklinger?

[Anne Merklinger]

Don't have an inquiry that is limited to just the safe sport conversation, but one that looks at the entire sport system. Where are the opportunities for improved alignment, improved resourcing and stronger leadership?

I would also suggest that.... Maybe I'll stop there, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

No, please, continue. What would you also suggest?

[Anne Merklinger]

I would also suggest that the measures that were announced last week by Minister St-Onge will definitely effect some positive change. We have a long way to go. We are just starting the journey. Certainly, the measures that were announced were very positive and will assist the sport system in improving.

[Sylvain Croteau]

For my part, I tend to question the entire Canadian sport system, not just the financial aspect.

Why not create a panel of stakeholders from various backgrounds and different layers of the sport system? We have to get out of the mode of dealing with the elite and national federations. Our support trickles down. Our local organizations and our athletes need to be heard. We need to be supported in this and there needs to be no stone left unturned.

As far as funding is concerned, there may be solutions we have not thought of yet. Earlier, someone alluded to sports betting, which seems to quite popular these days. Why would sports betting not serve the Canadian sport system instead of foreign interests? Why would there not be a national lottery to partially fund the Canadian sport system?

As for the non-disclosure agreements our young people have been forced to sign to date, Sport'Aide was outraged to find out about that. Whether we are young or not so young, when we are a victim of anything whatsoever it is hard enough to ask for help. If we are asked to sign a non-disclosure agreement to boot it is even harder. There is no need to spend two minutes in a victim's shoes to know what this means to them. I have not been a victim, but based on the testimony we are receiving, I can imagine the pressure of all this. We will put a stop to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to go to our second round. I don't think we're going to be able to complete the second round, but I'm going to make sure every party has an opportunity to ask questions according to the time.

We're going to go to Richard Martel for the Conservatives.

Richard, you have five minutes, please.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. I find this interesting.

I have some questions for Mr. Croteau, naturally.

In her recommendations, the minister talked about a registry of sanctioned individuals. How do you picture this registry being implemented? There is talk of unacceptable behaviour, but where do we draw the line between unacceptable behaviour and acceptable behaviour? How many offences will a person need to commit before being registered? If complaints against a coach are admissible, will he automatically be added to the registry?

Is creating this registry a complex process? It is a rather sensitive exercise.

[Sylvain Croteau]

The ideal solution would be to have a registry where the Mr. Croteaus and Mr. Martels of this world who commit these unacceptable acts in sports are added, in such a way that we know where they are. In fact, such a registry would establish the traceability of these individuals and help us know their pathway in the sport system.

In Quebec, we were told that this is a difficult measure to implement from a legal standpoint. Then why not be creative and, conversely, establish a registry of individuals who have positive practices, as a way of following their pathway? Every year, people could make a voluntary statement of their progress. For example, an individual could declare that over the past year, he was a coach at such-and-such location and indicate what training he took. He could provide the contact information of a resource person who could confirm the information about him. This registry could be mandatory for every stakeholder in sports. That way, if an organization receives Mr. Croteau's application and he is not on the registry of positive coaches, the organization could ask questions.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

That is good, Mr. Croteau.

This brings me to training for coaches.

Today, given everything we know, coaches need to know how far they can go, where they need to stop and how they need to manage different situations. What is more, often the entire community is accountable because the coach, quite often, is pushed by certain people.

To me, training and follow-up are very important. How do you imagine proceeding on that?

[Sylvain Croteau]

As far as training is concerned, you touched on something super interesting: we need to consider every component of a sports ecosystem. It is not just the coaches that we need to target for training, but also our young people themselves, so that they are able to recognize what is acceptable or not. We need to talk to them, educate them. We also need to talk to the administrators of our sports organizations so that they realize that they are responsible for the decisions they make. We also need to talk to the spectators, the parents of the athletes, and the support staff at the organizations.

At Sport'Aide, we raise awareness among all the stakeholders in an ecosystem. The best way to reduce risk is to address every component of an ecosystem.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Croteau, you've been in your role since 2018, so you've probably received many complaints. I would like to know why those complaints have only come to light since late 2022 or early 2023. There have been complaints in the past—why have they not been mentioned? We talk about a culture of silence, but what led this silence to be broken now?

[Sylvain Croteau]

I think current events have helped people realize that there is more openness and they can now talk about situations and speak out against them.

There has been a law of silence. We are still grappling with it. There are still people who fear reprisals or are scared to lose playing time or their spot on a team. For example, some people call us for the first time and then it might take 5, 6 or even 12 months before they call us again, because they are afraid of what might happen to them. This is still very common and all too present in sports.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Okay, thank you.

My next question is for Ms. Merklinger.

We know that the goal is to win medals, to perform well, and to reach the podium.

What happens, in terms of perceptions, if athletes cannot get a medal?

[Anne Merklinger]

I believe athletes get involved in high-performance work because they want to win and they believe they can win. Our job in the system is to provide every opportunity for athletes to have the resources to achieve their goals in an environment that respects the psychological health and safety of every athlete.

We invest in the future. We don't reward past performance. It's an investment in future opportunities for each and every athlete.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

You recently submitted financial statements, but I have not seen any minutes. Perhaps it's because they weren't yet ready at the time.

Were your financial statements made available because of the minister's recent request, or were they always available?

[Anne Merklinger]

We have posted our full, audited financial statements on our website for many years, and we will now be posting our board minutes. In fact, we are in the process of doing that now.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Now I'm going to go to the Liberals for five minutes with Michael Coteau.

You have five minutes, please.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. We appreciate your being here.

For folks who may be watching and for the committee, how much does each organization receive? What's your funding per year? What do you spend per year?

Could all three of you tell us, briefly?

[Jeremy Luke]

Sure. I'm happy to. Total expenses at the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport are approximately $10 million, of which about $7 million is from—

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Is it public?

[Jeremy Luke]

—Sport Canada. Yes.