Canadian Heritage Committee on May 18th, 2023

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm going to call this meeting to order.

Ms. Fry is having what we're going to talk about: connectivity problems. We're having some issues on the west coast, which seems to be appropriate for our meeting here this afternoon.

Welcome to meeting number 82 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, May 8, 2023, the committee is meeting to study report 2 of the Auditor General of Canada: “Connectivity in Rural and Remote Areas”.

We will now begin the opening remarks.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I have a point of order before we go there.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

We have a point of order from Mrs. Harder.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I have a quick question. I was hoping that the chair could inform us, but since that has shifted on us, perhaps the clerk can.

We have one day left for the minister to appear on the main estimates before they're due back to the House. We passed a motion at this committee to invite the heritage minister here to speak to the main estimates. We haven't heard from him since the election of 2021 with regard to anything financial, so I'm just curious if we can anticipate him coming at the last opportunity, which would be Monday, May 29.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you for that question, Mrs. Harder.

We'll go now to Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

The minister's father recently passed. I think his desire was to come on May 29. There have been some discussions with the clerk on coming that day. That's the preference, but things are now up in the air with.... I think the honourable members would understand.

I know that the preference would be before the main estimates, but he's happy to appear just after. I know there's a deadline, but with the family emergency, I would think that everyone would have that understanding. His intention is to appear before this committee on the estimates, whether that be on the 29th, which is his hope, or shortly thereafter if that's forced upon him because of the funeral arrangements.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

I have to apologize first. Mrs. Thomas, I called you Mrs. Harder. My apologies.

Mrs. Thomas, if the minister can't make it for the 29th.... As you know, he did have a family issue. You've heard the explanation from Mr. Bittle. Are you happy with that?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I think my concern is that we've had a year and a half pass since he was first invited to this committee. He has turned down every single one of our invitations with regard to financials, and that concerns me.

Yes, I understand that his father passed away—and my sincere condolences—but that is in the moment. That does not excuse a year and a half of his absence with regard to financial matters.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Go ahead, Mr. Bittle.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thanks so much, Mr. Chair.

I didn't think condolences could sound as sarcastic as that. I'm shocked that we're actually debating this.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

That's cruel, and you're taking something that—

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have the floor.

The minister and his staff have been talking with the clerk. I know that the intention was to appear on the 29th.

Mr. Rodriguez was away. His father was in the hospital for an extended period of time in Mexico. That's where the minister was for an extended period of time—out of the country—which is why he wasn't in the House of Commons last week.

This is getting petty. He will be here. He will appear. He wants to appear.

He has appeared before, and I believe the honourable member who has expressed condolences filibustered the last time that he was here, so he sat in the back waiting to appear. There really wasn't a desire to get to him at that point or at other points as well. He has appeared two or three times since our election in 2021, and he stands ready to appear again.

It's a reasonable request by the committee to hear him on estimates. Again, if there weren't the family emergency he'd be here on the 29th. If he can't be here on the 29th, he'll be here shortly thereafter.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Go ahead, Mr. Housefather.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to say this in a different way.

This committee has always been respectful of what has happened with people's families. We recently had a witness who didn't appear when he was summoned because of the death of somebody who had been threatening him.

We now have a minister whose father died yesterday morning. He died on Wednesday. I think we all want to extend our deepest condolences to the minister. I think, from everybody's perspective, that's a genuine feeling we would have for anybody—our friends or our colleagues.

Again, the minister has stated that he wants to come on the 29th. Hopefully he will be able to, but we all understand that his dad died in a foreign country. We don't know when the funeral arrangements will be made. I think this is a time, when somebody's father just died, to not start.... I don't think this conversation is appropriate at this time.

I would just respectfully ask, regardless of any past acrimony, that we all pay our condolences and that we move this discussion to a future date.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Housefather.

We have Mr. Champoux and then Mr. Julian.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a purely technical question, and maybe our clerk can answer it.

Unless I'm mistaken, we should have the minister appear before May 31 to review the votes. Circumstances are such that, on a human level, it would be rather petty to demand his appearance at a time when he's grieving with his family. Would it be possible to push that date back? Has that ever been done? Is the date absolute under circumstances like these?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Michael MacPherson]

It is a set date. Committees often study the subject of votes in the main estimates, but all votes are deferred and held in the House of Commons.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

So, we could indeed review the votes without the minister and have him appear later. Could that be done, or would it be completely pointless by then to do it that way?

[The Clerk]

If it's useful, we can hold the meeting, but it would be on the subject of the votes, and not on the votes as such.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Very well, thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Go ahead, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

We are all united in offering our most sincere condolences to Minister Rodriguez after his father's passing. I just heard the news and I think it's extremely sad. I lost my father and my mother within 18 months of each other, and I know the grief runs deep. It takes weeks to come back from losing a loved one.

As far as I'm concerned, the minister can appear before the committee when he is able, and we can ask questions about a variety of subjects, including expenditures. I don't see a problem. The main message of today's meeting must be a message of profound sympathy. We offer our most sincere condolences to the minister and his family.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you for everyone's comments.

When we come back on Monday, it has been suggested that we could have the subject matter study on the main estimates. There would be no votes, but we would be here for two hours then.

We'll ask Mike to clarify what I have screwed up.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Clerk]

A subject matter study would be any study of the estimates after the deadline. You could do a subject matter study. You wouldn't be doing the votes, because the votes would have been deemed reported back at the deadline.