Canadian Heritage Committee on May 29th, 2023

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

There is $260 million in the Department of Canadian Heritage budget that says “Sport".

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I will turn to Mr. Doiron.

[Eric Doiron, Chief Financial Officer, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Thanks for that question.

The sports program is under the Department of Canadian Heritage, but it is Minister St-Onge who is responsible for those funds.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

We're going to move on. We're going to welcome Mr. Housefather virtually.

Anthony, you have five minutes.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Kevin.

Thank you, Minister.

I also want to extend my deepest condolences to you on the loss of your father. It's really good of you to be here as you and your family are grieving.

I'd like to start with a question about CBC/Radio-Canada. This has already been addressed by Mr. Coteau, but I'd still like to ask you the question.

If someone told you that you could give funds to the French network of CBC/Radio-Canada, but not to the English network, what problems would that cause? Do journalists on the French and English networks share equipment, especially outside Quebec? What would happen?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That's a very good question, Mr. Housefather, but I don't have an answer. In fact, I don't understand what the official opposition is trying to do.

As I mentioned earlier, CBC/Radio-Canada is an institution. The funds that are allocated go to the entire institution. There's a president, a board of directors, a senior management team. It has shared offices across the country. Very often, the same journalist will ask me a question in French and say:

“Can you repeat the same thing in English, please?”, or she'll maybe ask a different question in English, but that is the same person, so what do you do with that person? Do you pay that person only when she's asking questions in French and not in English?

When you cross the street to do an interview at CBC/Radio‑Canada, the security guards at the entrance are the same. The infrastructure and editing studios are the same. I don't understand what the opposition is trying to do.

That's the first thing, Mr. Housefather. You're going to understand what I'm going to say very well.

A fundamental right is being taken away from the English-speaking minority in Quebec. CBC/Radio‑Canada is there for French-speaking minorities outside Quebec. What the opposition is saying today is that we don't care about the English-speaking minority in Quebec and that they're going to take away access to news in their language from our public network, CBC/Radio‑Canada.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I want to thank you for that, Minister, because what you are saying is absolutely true. People think of the English-speaking community in Quebec as being only the English-speaking community in Montreal, which is well served by institutions, and forget that we have remote English-speaking communities in the Gaspé, on the North Shore, in Trois-Rivières, in Quebec City and in Abitibi. Those people make use of CBC. CBC Radio and CBC Television are the rare things that they get unless they have satellite, so thank you for always standing up for our community as well.

I also want to come back to how you've been getting some questions about sports and about diversity and inclusion, and there's a confusion, because of course you are the Minister of Canadian Heritage, but there are other ministers who are responsible for portions of the budget of the Department of Canadian Heritage.

Could you clarify that? It has to be made clear that you are not responsible for diversity and inclusion or for sports.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

According to the way a government works, it is the Prime Minister's prerogative to delegate responsibilities to members of his cabinet.

As he did for me in 2018, the Prime Minister can tell a minister that he or she will be responsible for both Canadian heritage and multiculturalism. That's why I was so proud to tour Canada to build the whole anti-racism strategy. However, when I returned to the department, this time the multiculturalism component was no longer my responsibility, but that of Mr. Hussen.

Ms. St‑Onge takes care of with sports and Ms. Petitpas Taylor is responsible for official languages, albeit under the big umbrella of the Department of Canadian Heritage. Nevertheless, the concrete responsibilities of day-to-day management, signatures and all the rest are delegated by the Prime Minister to specific ministers. As a result, I'm not responsible for day-to-day management, and I have absolutely nothing to do with these programs.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

That's why I wanted to clarify that. I know, for example, that you're passionate about sports, especially soccer. I know you're passionate about religious minority communities in Canada. You have often talked to me about anti-Semitism and other communities, the protection of churches and the protection of all of the things that have been raised today. I know you are passionate about them, and I don't want people to think that just because you're not responsible for them, you don't care about these things. I know you care deeply about them.

Mr. Chair, I think my time is up. I just wanted to leave it at that.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Housefather.

We'll go to Mr. Champoux for two and a half minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It will be difficult to be gentler than that in my questions, Minister.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You can try.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

No. I would like to come back to a few points that I think are very important.

First, we talked about advertising earlier and I just want to remind you of a few facts. We had a bit of a laugh at the end of my speaking period, but I just want to tell you how important it is, because our media talk to us about it regularly. It's something we find very difficult to explain to ourselves. I intend to talk to you about it again very soon.

I also want to talk to you about this committee's report to revive culture following the pandemic. I think we can agree that we're pretty much back to a situation where people can go back to attending shows safely. There are still fears, however, and efforts still need to be made; the various stakeholders in the cultural industry are asking us to do so, particularly the smaller festivals, as I mentioned earlier.

Recommendation 9 of our report, Minister, urged the federal government to “make significant efforts to encourage Canadians to return to live arts, culture, heritage and sporting events.” This is a category of events to which small festivals correspond quite well, and large ones too for that matter, I'm sure we agree.

Despite this, I note a decrease of about $25 million for the Canada Arts Presentation Fund, another $9.5 million for the Canada Music Fund, a decrease of $7.7 million for the Building Communities Through Arts and Heritage program and another $6.9 million for the Canada Cultural Spaces Fund.

It seems to me that this doesn't quite address the recommendation we made.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes, but this is about funds to counter the pandemic, Mr. Champoux, and on that—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes, but in that report, we said that these funds were also needed once the pandemic had passed, because the recovery of this sector, which we recognized as more difficult than that of many other economic sectors, depended on this aid, which has not been maintained.

That was the sense of that recommendation, and that's what's very disappointing to the industry right now.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You will agree that the help we all worked on together was substantial in every way. It's what's kept so many players alive, large and small, in the music business, the performing arts business and so on, thankfully. However, we've always made it clear that these funds were pandemic-related.

Now we can do other things. We can, for example, renew the funding for the local festivals component of the building communities through arts and heritage program; we've just added $14 million over two years, so $7 million a year. There's also the tourism strategy we're developing for major festivals and events. I'm very passionate about the music sector. I'm currently looking into it to see what we can do in future budgets.

There are also other mechanisms we can use, but I share your interest in helping these people.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have very little time; I think my time is up.

I just want to make you aware of this. Small festivals are going to need you, they're going to communicate with you.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'm glad. I know them well.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

We're going to have to loosen the purse strings a bit to help them this summer, they're going to need it badly.

Thank you very much for being here.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Champoux.

We'll move on to Peter Julian for two and a half minutes. You have the floor.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Today, as during all discussions regarding bills C‑11 and C‑18, we have often heard disinformation from large technology companies, who want nothing to do with these bills.

In the coming months, with the implementation of bills C‑11 and C‑18, it will be even more important for Canadians to know exactly what's in these bills.

What are you going to do, Minister, to counter this disinformation often promoted by interests with enormous resources?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

This is a very topical issue. We can also see it with the advent of artificial intelligence and the increased risk of disinformation.

It's not up to the government to say what disinformation is or is not, i.e., that such and such a message is disinformation and such and such is not. There's an element of debate in all this.

There are several answers to your question. One of the main answers is Bill C‑18. Indeed, it reinforces a free, independent, autonomous and impartial press that likes to dig, does research, writes and disseminates information based on facts.

We're also setting up other programs. I'm thinking, for example, of the programs we've implemented to foster civic education, to help young people and different groups recognize what might be disinformation.

However, at no time would it be for the government to say that it knows what is true or not. We agree on that.

We need to help institutions that give the public access to valid, factual information.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay.

We're going to come through Bill C-18. The NDP fought hard to get a number of amendments to stimulate local journalism. I want to shout out to the New West Anchor, the Burnaby Beacon, Burnaby NOW and the Royal City Record, all of whom will benefit from this.

Is it in the plans of the government to have those voices and that local journalism revived after years of having big tech suck all the advertising money out of communities? Is it your plan to ensure that Canadians are aware of how we are reviving the local journalistic sector and uniting people in their communities?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes. I want to thank you personally, Mr. Julian, for all your work on Bill C-18 and the support you gave us—the NDP, but you more at a personal level—because the work we did collectively is super-important.

In too many regions, those papers—and Mr. Shields mentioned it—are struggling or disappearing. In some cases, an MP goes back home and there's no one to cover it, and that's bad for democracy. People should know what's happening in their city hall and what their MLA is doing, what their MP is doing.

That's why we're going to be reinforcing those small papers through Bill C-18, and that's why collective bargaining is so important and why it has been included in that bill.