Canadian Heritage Committee on June 8th, 2023

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You're taking action and you're looking for solutions. In particular, you worked with the Canadiens hockey club and met with players to talk about a form of education on sexual mores.

Can you tell us more about your experience and the solutions that are needed in locker rooms?

[Mélanie Lemay]

Obviously, any player who has gone through the entire process of becoming a professional is essentially an expert in their sport. As such, they have a lot to say and they have a voice. They should play a more central role in the emerging decision-making process. They're heroes and role models for generations of young people who want to follow in their footsteps as they grow up.

The data are obviously confidential, but the fact remains that, because they have been in this environment, men have a lot of information about things they weren't even aware they were witnessing, whether in interrelationships with women or with fans.

We need to make sure we carry out a concerted campaign with various players. That's what my friend Mia Lynn Cossette and I are advocating for. Together, we founded the Consensus campaign, which aims to engage the entire ecosystem to ensure that we recover this leadership model and that we bring about a transition to new values and a new way to be an athlete.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Among other things, your expertise leads you to observe what's going on in the educational environment, particularly in student sports.

The committee wants things to change, and we obviously need to submit a report. Do you have any specific recommendations for the educational community? At that age, athletes develop their connection to sexuality and experience a sense of glory on their teams or in their schools.

[Mélanie Lemay]

It's essential that the Department of Canadian Heritage no longer be responsible for managing sport. It has to be the Department of Health, simply because we need to set up integrated support mechanisms within teams and a service corridor that facilitates and enables young people to get help as soon as they need it. We have to stop seeing them as athletes. These are young people, people who need support. Implementing integrated measures can benefit society as a whole.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

In a way, you're denouncing this high-performance culture that puts athletes above all else, a bit like the culture of gold medals at all costs in the Olympic movement and the Own the Podium organization. The people from that organization told us they wanted to see a change, and said they are in favour of an independent public inquiry, but they are also reviewing their mission.

How do you see this culture of performance at all costs? How is follow-up done with victims? Do they receive guidance? Is there sufficient compassion for them and do victims get the services they need?

[Mélanie Lemay]

Right now, people are only keeping silent about these issues of violence because we have no mechanism that captures the complex situation of the instigators and victims of this form of violence.

Allow me to explain. National tournaments are held in various provinces, and there are international tournaments too. They come under various authorities, and the players sign contracts or agreements that are sometimes at odds with our own laws. Clearly, we need to broaden our vision to facilitate access to justice and redress.

In addition, athletes sign confidentiality agreements. There are lawyers and legal experts behind these practices. All provincial bar associations must therefore commit to better regulating the profession and creating a new branch of law that considers all the implications and ramifications of gender-based violence.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

That's very interesting.

I'd like to talk about the people who mentor athletes. Even if they are held accountable, a number of coaches who have committed abuses find themselves in situations where they can reoffend elsewhere.

How can we explain this phenomenon where victims are left to fend for themselves, when abusers have the right to start over elsewhere and, sadly, begin committing reprehensible acts again in many cases?

[Mélanie Lemay]

Often, what people tend to say, with no real legal basis, is that the right to privacy trumps young victims' right to safety or freedom of speech.

In my opinion, this is a fundamental human rights issue, because at the end of the day, adults in positions of authority are being allowed to act with impunity, and that's unacceptable. This underscores the need to broaden the dialogue and to call for a new branch of law.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

This week, we heard from representatives of My Voice, My Choice, who came to talk about this issue.

What legislative changes would you suggest to ensure that people are no longer abused by having them sign non-disclosure agreements?

[Mélanie Lemay]

First, we have to redefine the very meaning of what we want to protect. Personally, I think it should no longer be an organization's image or reputation, but rather young people's integrity. That's why the group La voix des jeunes compte is calling for legislation on this issue.

Let's also not forget that before they are athletes, these are human beings who grow in our school environments. We need to foster a dialogue with the provinces that would make it possible to pass legislation on this issue.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Then everyone will have to assume their responsibilities.

Thank you very much, Mrs. Lemay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much. Your time is up.

Now we go to the New Democratic Party and Peter Julian for six minutes, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for their testimony, which has often been troubling. We're very grateful to them for showing courage in coming to give us this information. It's extremely important, given that we must draft a report on the subject. It will help us tell the government what action it needs to take.

Mrs. Lemay, one of your recommendations was that grooming should be considered a criminal offence. When we talk about abuse, whether in sports or in schools, it always starts with that form of psychological manipulation, that type of wrongdoing.

Do you have any more details to give us on that? How could we frame that in the Criminal Code?

[Mélanie Lemay]

Here's the main problem. When a young person or their family files a complaint, there will often have been no overt physical violence. In fact, it's very rare. Emotional blackmail often involves a bond of trust or love. There are also the bonds forged when parents have blind faith in the coach.

We really need to better understand, through science, what leads to the act being committed. The climate that develops over several years gives certain aggressors the opportunity to progress to actions, whether it's during a tournament or a trip abroad. In my opinion, it's essential to call a spade a spade. Current laws don't always allow charges to be laid, since the person in the position of authority will sometimes wait until the young person has reached the age of majority before acting. There's a perversion in all this that hasn't yet been considered. It's a huge blind spot.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Are you aware of grooming practices in other countries?

[Mélanie Lemay]

In a way, Canada is a forerunner in that respect. Given all the legislative challenges that exist between provincial, national and international jurisdictions, it's really necessary to go much further than what the Criminal Code currently offers. Otherwise, we won't be able to take into account the full social context in which sexual violence occurs. We're only going to focus on the facts of the case, without considering the systemic context in which they occur.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Lindsay, I'd like to come to you.

In response to questions asked by Mrs. Thomas, you talked about the fact that, essentially, for about a year there wasn't an investigation process in place in response to the letter, which talked about the “toxic culture of fear and silence” with Boxing Canada. They write this in their letter:

Many athletes feel they have suffered physical abuse, psychological abuse, and neglect by the organization because of their failure to address these issues. Repeated attempts have been made to bring these issues to light, and they have been ignored or dismissed.

I understand from your testimony there wasn't a process put in place for complaints.

I note that within Boxing Canada, there is a provision for the high-performance program in the athlete agreement. One thing that is said very clearly is—I'm quoting clause (ff)—that the athlete is engaging to:

Not publicly (including through social media) disparage or advance any grievance against Boxing Canada, Boxing Canada's staff or coaches, members of the National Team, or other HPP athletes except through Boxing Canada's policies for complaints and appeals....

If there wasn't a process in place for complaints and appeals, these athletes were still governed by the athlete's agreement. How could that be that Boxing Canada would not provide an outlet, yet would still, in a sense, oblige a non-disclosure agreement?

[Christopher Lindsay]

Given that I wasn't around during that time, I find it difficult to talk about specifics. However, there are two things that I would like to bring forward.

The first is that, in the last month, we have made a significant change to that athlete agreement, taking away the clause that specifically prohibited athletes from speaking out in any way that was disparaging to the NSO. That needed to change. That's following guidance that we were able to get from both Sport Canada and AthletesCAN.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Have all of the high-performance athletes then signed new agreements that no longer have that legal clause?

[Christopher Lindsay]

It has just come back from translation. It will be put up on our website and pushed out to all of our athletes who are engaged in national-level programming.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

At this point, the athletes are still governed by the original agreement.

[Christopher Lindsay]

They are still under that agreement, but whether we would execute on that I think is....

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Can you commit today that Boxing Canada will endeavour as quickly as possible to rip up the old agreement and allow those athletes then to speak up?

[Christopher Lindsay]

Absolutely.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you.

I want to go to Mr.—