Canadian Heritage Committee on June 8th, 2023

[Lukas Walter]

At the end of the day you see people who are supposedly working and they all live almost in a commune and stuff like that. That's not a question I can really fully answer in terms of the direction of the league. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find housing for the boys and all that and to consider giving them a livable wage so they could live off it.

Also, what I would like to say is that if the boys do end up getting money and all that, they should have the union or somebody offering to put their money in almost an investment so that, after they're done with their hockey, they'll have something as well as their school to look forward to. There could be different funds that could earn interest or whatever.

I think there's a lot of work to do on that sort of stuff.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

In my opinion, the minimum wage doesn't allow them to support themselves.

[Lukas Walter]

Yes, but how do they get away with making so much money off of volunteers? That's what I'm asking.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

That's interesting.

Mr. Lindsay, on April 24, the committee heard Ms. Myriam Da Silva Rondeau testify. She explained that, when athletes use the mechanisms in place at Boxing Canada, it can take several months for things to change. During this time, the athlete does not take part in competitions or training camps, and does not accumulate any points.

What do you think of this statement?

[Christopher Lindsay]

Finding opportunities for athletes, especially in combat sports, to go into the world to compete against other world-class athletes is very difficult. Boxing is particularly challenged, given some of the international upheaval that has already been referenced.

We are hopeful that there are changes afoot that will clarify some of that pathway, to provide boxing athletes and other combat athletes with multiple levels of international competition, so that, if they are not on our A team, they can be on a B team, which is still able to go out into the world and rack up international points.

If I had my way, I would put that all the way down to a C team and D team. However, as one of the members mentioned, we will need to find other sources of investment for that.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lindsay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Martel.

Next we will have Anthony Housefather for the Liberals.

You have five minutes, please, Anthony.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Are we sure that Ms. Hepfner didn't want to go next? I want to make sure that it's not her time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I asked Ms. Hepfner and she said she wasn't ready. She may go after you.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Okay. Thank you so much, then, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much to the witnesses.

As you know, we have a former hockey coach with us today. His questions are perhaps a little more specific than mine.

I want to start with my questions related to hockey.

As you know, we've had intensive interactions with Hockey Canada. The leagues are members of Hockey Canada.

I am wondering whether you have seen over the last year, since there has been a new board in place, a change at all in the attitude of Hockey Canada toward the CHL or toward the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League? Have you seen anything...?

I guess I'll go to Thomas and Lukas first.

[Thomas Gobeil]

Thank you for your question.

No, there's nothing I can attest to that I've seen. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but there's nothing I can attest to that I've seen that has changed.

[Lukas Walter]

I've seen nothing change, besides them advertising that they're giving a lot to the scholarship fund. But here I sit with my scholarship gone.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Basically your scholarship was taken away because you didn't exercise it in the first year after you left.

[Lukas Walter]

You have to use it in a year, but what if someone wants to go travel? There are other things to life than hockey. You've done hockey your whole life and now you're forced to go back to school.

You need longer on that, or you need.... I don't think it should ever expire. You've earned that. You've earned your three years of school. It should either be a buyout or it's with you forever. Maybe I want to go to adult school right now, but I can't do that because I don't have it.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Again, I understand. I think it's part of the hockey paradigm.

Richard was asking whether it was different by team. As you stated, I think it's the same as when your dad was there in the eighties. Whether it's a new hockey family or an old hockey family that goes through generations, the league stays relatively the same. Given that this committee's goal is to make recommendations related to....

Each sport is different, but in hockey, we've tackled the safe sport issue a little bit. I think the new board is committed to dealing with a safer sport.

In terms of labour conditions within junior hockey, what are the major recommendations you would say we should make? We can only really exercise them through funding from Sport Canada to Hockey Canada. We don't have leverage over the leagues themselves, necessarily. What are the major things...?

Chris explored whether it should be unionized, whether the league should have policies. Basically, they're taking mostly underage kids away from their parents, putting them with billet families and not really taking care of them in a proper way. What should we recommend?

I'll go maybe to both of you.

[Thomas Gobeil]

I can go first.

Like I said, I think the CHL players should be recognized as federal employees, because, if we look at the demand....

If you will allow me, I will share a bit of my experience.

I was 15 when I left my home. I was told exactly how to dress and when to dress that way, when to get to the rink and when to eat. I couldn't eat the food I chose. It was the food I was given. I was told how to act and how to speak, also, in certain situations. They also commented on my hairstyle and the way I walked.

If this doesn't look like a regiment or a company trying to build a culture image around their employees, I don't know what does.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Lukas.

[Lukas Walter]

He hit the nail on the head.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Do you have anything to add, Kim?

[Kim Taylor]

I'm a proponent, definitely, of an association or a union. I know the league cannot police itself. It's apparent. It keeps happening decade after decade, so I believe strongly that's the direction we should go in. I would like to see them become federal employees. At least they would have protections as employees. They have nothing now. These kids are literally in limbo, without any protections.

It crosses over into a lot of other things. Yes, the team pays for their.... You're paying to see these players. They are getting all the rights. They have merchandise. They have the snack bars. They are making millions of dollars and the kids get nothing.

They get one guaranteed week off for Christmas. Other than that, they don't even get a guaranteed scheduled day off.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

As a question, because, for those of us—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Anthony. You have just finished your five minutes. I'm sorry.

We now go to Monsieur Lemire.

Sébastien, you have two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First of all, I'd like to acknowledge the courage of those who dared to speak out, starting with your son, Ms. Taylor. I'd like to highlight the whole legal movement he created in relation to Mr. Daniel Carcillo. I'm also thinking of people like Mr. Walter and Mr. Gobeil, of course, as well as Mr. Sheldon Kennedy, a former hockey player.

Ms. Taylor, what legacy would you like your son to leave by speaking out? What message do you want to send to other victims who have yet to speak out, whether in hockey or elsewhere?

[Kim Taylor]

The reason why we came forward was to help those younger players coming up. We want to see.... I think you can ask all players who have been through this. We love hockey. It's not that. We still love hockey, but we want to make sure these kids.... That's what they are. They are teenagers. I think we sometimes forget that, because it's a professional sport. It's big business, but they are kids. They are trying to go to school. They are on the bus for these long road trips.

My son said he would get to the parking lot at 6 a.m. You're exhausted and they would make you go to school for public appearances. He also had a broken wrist. The educational adviser came in during the day. He was in a lot of pain. He had asked the coach whether he could stay home. They said, “Go to school.” The educational adviser at school came in, checked on him and sent him home.

I feel they do a lot for good publicity, but there's a lot of abuse going on behind closed doors.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Gobeil, we often hear that people don't want to speak out because they're afraid of losing what they've gained, losing their reputation or suffering reprisals.

Now that your career is behind you, what message would you like to send? Why did you speak out so courageously today?