Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 19th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The committee is resuming. We are now in public, and we are in a business meeting.

Mrs. Thomas has the floor.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that.

First, the CBC leadership gave direction to their people to not call Hamas a terrorist organization, which is to side with the terrorists. Then the CBC started actually pumping out false information after saying that it was incumbent upon them to report only the facts.

They put out a story with the title, “Hundreds killed in Israeli airstrike on Gaza City hospital, Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza says”. Only moments later, they discovered that this was actually false information. Of course it is. Their intelligence came from Hamas. You have the CBC taking public dollars and using those dollars to broadcast a message from a terrorist organization. It's despicable.

The request to this committee is that we have the opportunity to speak to CBC's leadership and understand why they've been giving the direction that they've been giving, why they've been presenting the misleading and false information that they've been presenting.

They falsely claimed that the explosion was the result of Israel's purposely attacking the hospital. They falsely reported that it killed hundreds, and they falsely used B-roll to show dead bodies being removed from a hospital and the wounded being cared for. Only hours later, we discovered that the hospital actually wasn't hit; it was the parking lot. Hundreds weren't killed; wounded weren't removed.

This is a public broadcaster taking over a billion dollars from Canadians in order to tell a false narrative on behalf of a terrorist organization.

Therefore, my request before this committee—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Madam Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Martin, [Inaudible—Editor] go next, yes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Can she keep going?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas. I have to acknowledge the hands that go up, and I am doing that.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Well, not in an interruptive manner.

The CBC took taxpayer dollars and used that money to spread misinformation or to tell an outright lie. They used taxpayer money to be the mouthpiece for a terrorist organization known as “Hamas” and that is despicable, and for the members opposite to try to excuse that is even more deplorable. It was irresponsible storytelling at best and outright advocacy on behalf of a terrorist organization at worst. Again, Canadian taxpayer dollars being used for these purposes....

It was damaging to the Israeli people, it was damaging to Canadians, it was damaging to the relationship Canadians have with their journalists, and it was damaging to journalists themselves, because there are good journalists who are doing good work who are waiting to get the facts and to report them accurately. When the CBC doesn't do that, it causes distrust among the Canadian public at large, and if you don't have trust, you don't have credibility.

Without that, how are Canadians supposed to be able to know that what they're getting is accurate? How are they supposed to be able to trust the news that is coming their way if reporters or broadcasters like the CBC don't take the time and put in the energy and exercise the care or the discretion to get things right?

The motion I am moving at this committee is this:

Given that,

Hamas has been a declared terrorist organization by the Government of Canada since 2002, and

The horrific Hamas terrorist attack against Israel left thousands of innocent people dead and injured, and

That an email directive sent from the Director of Journalistic Standards of CBC News, Mr. George Achi, to all employees of CBC News, directed them to downplay coverage of the horrific, sadistic, violence perpetrated by Hamas against innocent people in Israel by not referring to the attackers as terrorists, and to falsely claim that Gaza continued to be under occupation after Israel had pulled out in 2005,

The CBC receives $1.4 billion in public funding through taxpayer dollars annually, and that this committee has a mandate to review Government expenditures,

The Committee:

a) Denounce Mr. Achi's comments and report this to the House

b) Summon the President of the CBC, Catherine Tait, to appear for 2 hours by herself within seven days of the motion being adopted,

c) Summon the CBC Director of Journalistic Standards, George Achi, to appear for 2 hours by himself within seven days of the motion being adopted,

d) Invite the CBC ombudsman, Mr. Jack Nagler, to appear for a minimum of 2 hours to address the CBC's position on Journalistic Standards and Practices.

That last point around journalistic standards and practices is so important, because, again, not only did the leadership at CBC gave a directive to refrain from calling Hamas a terrorist organization, which it is officially declared to be under law in Canada, but the CBC also published a story that put blame on Israel for the blast that took place at a hospital, and this was wrong. It was a lie. It was false information the CBC received directly from Hamas, a terrorist organization.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

On a point of order, Madam Chair, can Ms. Thomas direct her comments to the chair, please?

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Yes. I don't know why she was staring at you.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I'm handsome, but I hope it's not for any other reason, you know....

[An hon. member]

Yes, focus on the chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Mrs. Thomas.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Let me begin again for your sake, the chair's sake.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I heard what you have to say, Ms. Thomas, every word.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

It's okay. I'll just say it again.

It's very important that this committee understand two things: that the CBC gave two directives—or, I should say, that the CBC gave one directive and published one false story. The directive that was given to the CBC was to not call Hamas a terrorist organization, which it is. Canada has officially declared it a terrorist organization—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have a point of order.

That is false, and Mrs. Thomas knows that. She should stick to facts and not try to spin or torque what the actual directive was.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Ms. Thomas, please note what Mr. Julian said. Go ahead and speak. You have the floor.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

The CBC leadership not only gave direction to refrain from calling Hamas a terrorist organization—which it is, based on a decision made by the Canadian government in 2007, more than 20 years ago—but also—

I'm sorry...?

[A voice]

It was 15 years ago.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I'm sorry. I said 2007. You're right. I apologize.

Let me correct the record.

The CBC leadership gave direction to not call Hamas a terrorist organization. The Government of Canada officially declared it a terrorist organization more than 20 years ago. That decision is known. That is an official decision made by the Canadian government. That is not something that is up for debate. That is fact, so for the CBC to give that directive is alarming.

Further to that, the CBC just recently ran with a story accusing Israel of the attack on a hospital. They did not verify the facts. They did not take the time to get the story correct. Instead, they just took information that was fed to them by Hamas and they pushed it out the door. Only moments later, they then had to retract the title of their story and the misleading information within it, because they had new information—because Canadians held them accountable and pushed back on their lies.

For a public broadcaster to take over a billion dollars and use that taxpayer money to propagate a false narrative fed by Hamas is absolutely deplorable. It is incumbent upon this committee to hold the CBC to account and to make sure that Canadians are being given accurate information.

The reason this is so important is that when false information is put out there, it is damaging to the Israeli people. It is damaging to the Canadian public. It is damaging to the relationship between Canada and Israel. It is damaging to journalists who do good work but are now not trusted because some people at the CBC have determined that it's in their best interest to propagate lies.

Mistrust is at all-time high. The CBC is publicly funded, and those in it have a responsibility to get it right. To be on the side of the terrorists is wrong. It is the wrong side to be on. Shame on them. Shame on us if we don't take the time to hold them to account.

Also, Chair, shame on Mr. Noormohamed...for laughing.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

In this entire rant, she has been looking at me and directing her comments about Hamas to me ss a Muslim member of this committee. I have had just about enough of it, Madam Chair. That comment is an exact example of the Islamophobia in this place that people like Ms. Thomas continue to perpetuate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Thomas, I would like to ask you to be careful with your choice of words when you are referring to members of the committee personally.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Madam Chair, I take your caution. Thank you.

For the record, there is a camera here. It happens to be in front of the member who just spoke. If he wishes to not be there, he is welcome to move to where he would be out of my eyesight, but that is his responsibility.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

That's why I moved.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Thomas, you named him. I'm sorry. I have to call you on that.

Now, have you finished, Ms. Thomas? Can we proceed to debate? I have a few hands up.