Evidence of meeting #96 for Canadian Heritage in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was journalists.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:05 a.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Martin Champoux
Okay. Thank you, Ms. Tait.
We're moving to the Conservatives.
Ms. Thomas, you have the floor for five minutes.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON
I will be speaking. Thank you.
I'm going to go back. The funding increases for the CBC have been 21% since 2016. That's $1.4 billion of taxpayers' money. The trust score has gone down, and by your own principles outlined on the CBC website.... You discussed impartiality, fairness, balance and integrity. Can you tell Canadians, who expect those principles to be upheld, why the state-funded broadcaster sued the Conservative Party in the middle of the 2019 election, while it was covering that party? By the way, it lost the lawsuit and our taxpayers are on the hook for the costs.
Why should Canadians trust you?
9:05 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
If I may, Mr. Chair, I just want to correct the record on our budget of $1.4 billion.
It's a very significant sum of money, but I just want to put it into perspective. France Télévisions and Radio France received four billion euros for a population of 67 million or so, one time zone and one language. We are providing service in two official languages and eight indigenous languages across six time zones with a funding of $33 per capita per year. That's less than a dime a day, and we also earn commercial revenue.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON
I understand, Ms. Tait. You don't believe that you get enough money.
My question is about why you sued the Conservative Party in the middle of the 2019 election. If you have an answer, that's fine. If not, I'll pass the time over to Mrs. Thomas, who maybe can ask you that same question that you won't answer.
9:05 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
It's not that I don't want to answer. I wanted to correct the record on the funding.
The purpose of the public broadcaster, as you've heard, is to present all news in the most fact-based, accurate and balanced way possible. We object to the use of our journalism—whether it's clips, sound bites or photographs of our journalists—when it is manipulated and used by political parties for their political ends. That was the substance of our concern. It continues to be a concern.
Do we wish to sue any political party? Absolutely not. However, we absolutely have to protect not only the appearance of independence but also the reality of independence. Therefore, we will always protect that journalism.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Melissa Lantsman Conservative Thornhill, ON
Well, it's not all political parties, just some.
Mrs. Thomas, go ahead.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Mr. Chair, Ms. Tait seems to like to correct the record here but unfortunately doesn't ensure that the record is corrected for the sake of the Canadian public, who are investing $1.4 billion of taxpayer money annually in the CBC and, of course, wanting unbiased and reliable news coverage.
She stated that trust is of utmost importance. However, obviously, telling the truth doesn't fit into her definition of gaining Canadians' trust. My question for Ms. Tait is this: We know that—
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Taleeb Noormohamed Liberal Vancouver Granville, BC
Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.
I just want to be clear on what I heard. I believe that Mrs. Thomas accused the witness of lying. I just want to make sure that that's not what happened, because if it is, I would humbly request that you, as the chair, perhaps ask Mrs. Thomas to take back her words and reconsider what she is saying.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Martin Champoux
Ms. Thomas, did you hear your colleague Mr. Noormohamed's request?
Do you intend to take back your words and reconsider your approach?
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The question I have for Ms. Tait has to do with—
9:10 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Mrs. Thomas has a long experience. She knows that what she just said was incredibly unparliamentary and inappropriate for this committee, inappropriate in every way. You have asked her to retract, and I believe she should. This is a parliamentary committee. It's not some kind of street brawl. It is really unfortunate.
I know that the Conservatives are frustrated because they've been saying things that are not true—
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Martin Champoux
Thank you, Mr. Julian. I think we're getting into a debate here.
Ms. Thomas, I would ask you to watch your choice of words with our guests. You seem to be hinting that Ms. Tait had ill-intentioned motives, which is not very parliamentary. I am cautioning you.
You have one minute and 15 seconds remaining.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Of course, that was not what I was intending to say, but the censorship coalition, of course, will try to silence my voice and interrupt as much as possible.
With regard to Ms. Lantsman's question concerning the lawsuit that was undertaken by the CBC toward the end of the 2019 election, it seems like a bit of a suspicious time to launch that. Nevertheless, it was unsuccessful. The courts did, in fact, determine that it was within the right of the Conservative Party of Canada to take footage provided by a public broadcaster and use it within its frame of reference. I wonder, then, why on earth the public broadcaster, the CBC, would undertake this case only a few days before the end of an election—I mean, it was right in the middle of a federal election—when in fact the CBC claims to want to be independent and truthful and to function with integrity. That doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.
Again, the court determined that the CPC, the Conservative Party of Canada, was in the right to use this footage. Was this just gamesmanship on behalf of the CBC?
9:10 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
I would like to clarify that this is not the only political party that we have had to take action on. It went further than—
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Mr. Chair, I would ask that you kindly ask the witness to answer the question.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Martin Champoux
Ms. Thomas, I'm going to give Ms. Tait a few more seconds, but your time is up.
Ms. Tait, please answer in a few seconds.
9:10 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
As I said, the legal case in the case of the Conservative Party is not the only time we've had to take injunctions. We've done that to the NDP and to the Liberal Party as well. We are here to protect our journalism.
9:10 a.m.
Conservative
Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB
Mr. Chair, it was in the middle of an election.
I didn't hear an answer.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Martin Champoux
Thank you. Your time is well over, Ms. Thomas.
We will now begin the last round of questions.
Over to Ms. Gainey, from the Liberal Party, for five minutes.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Anna Gainey Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Tait, thank you for being here.
I would like to come back to your strategic plan.
I believe you did an interview in February 2023, just earlier this year, signalling plans to shift your content to digital services. I believe that's what you were referencing in your three priorities as well with respect to your strategic plan.
I'm curious: Could you unpack that a bit more for us on the three commitments? If we have time, I'd also be curious to hear about the first one, regarding the indigenous framework that you're also working on.
9:10 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, CBC/Radio-Canada
Well, that's a big morsel to unpack.
What I would say on our strategic approach.... As Canadians have shifted to digital, we have followed them as best we can. We are not leaving behind any of our deeply devoted television and radio users, watchers and listeners. Obviously, radio is a hugely powerful connector in this country, especially during times of climate emergencies, as we saw this summer with the fires.
That shift to digital takes a great deal of investment, and it also allows us to reach younger audiences, which is extremely important for the future of democracy in this country. We need young people to be engaged in civics, civil discourse, and that is what the public broadcaster is trying to promote.
With respect to the indigenous framework, as I said earlier, we have an obligation to serve all Canadians, and that includes the first nations, Métis and Inuit peoples of this country. What is fantastically exciting about the work we've done over the last two years is that we've come to a place where not only will we be increasing the amount of indigenous-created and indigenous-produced content on our network, but we've made a commitment to ensure that our employee base and our leadership teams have greater representation from indigenous peoples.