Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2026

[Carol Todd]

In this whole space, we've talked about restrictions. We've talked about bans. We've talked about big tech and what they can do, but that's not enough. We also need education. We need awareness. We need to talk to our parents, our caregivers, our children and our students. It needs to be ongoing. I have walked into classrooms in various parts of Canada and teachers have gone, “Do I only have to teach this for a week?” No. Online safety, the digital world and whatever comes about need to be taught the 10 months to the school year.

Sometimes we say it shouldn't be the parents' responsibility, but parent also need to be aware and educated so they can have those conversations with their children, whether it's over the dinner table, in the car as they're going to soccer practice or sitting on the couch and co-viewing, which is becoming more popular.

We are also creating an analog generation out there. I've heard of so many young people who have said they are taking a break from screen time because, basically, they're tired of it, but the 13-, 14- and 15-year-olds aren't tired of it because it's new. If there is a ban, restriction or whatever we want to call it, I don't want that ban or restriction to say to a population of people that we don't have to teach this anymore because kids don't have access. We still have to teach because it is part of the dialogue.

You don't throw a child into a swimming pool without swimming lessons. You don't give the keys to the car to your kids unless they have driving lessons. We need to ensure that our kids know the rules, know how to play safe and know, most importantly, where to go if they need help. For so many young people, if something is going wrong, they internalize it. They don't want it.

To this committee, were you aware of this? I just became aware of it last fall. Public Safety Canada has an interactive road show on online dangers. It's interactive with kids. There are models of technology that show videos, and they can interact with the screens and talk. It's for groups of 30 kids in schools. Right now, it's in Ottawa. They're going to be presenting in Ottawa to some French-speaking schools. I would implore you—and I have a contact if someone wants to contact someone at Public Safety—to see it.

My problem with this is that so much money has been put into making this interactive road show, but it was only in B.C. for eight weeks last fall. Previous to that, it was only in Nova Scotia for eight weeks. I asked Public Safety where it was the rest of the time. It's stored in a warehouse.

This is a prevention tool that I declare awesome. It's excellent. It's a learning place. It should be in every province so kids can see it. It touches on cyber-bullying. It touches on online safety. It touches on exploitation. It touches on sextortion. These are what we want to teach our kids about, but we have a hard time teaching them because it's such a complicated conversation to have.

I have not met many teachers or parents who are comfortable with this topic and the conversation about human trafficking, exploitation or sextortion. Our kids don't know about this, but they should know about it. They need to know about it in a language that is clear and simple.

I think I've used up my four minutes.

Thank you, MP Royer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

That's exactly four minutes, right on the mark. It's always valuable to hear from you, Ms. Todd.

I will turn now to Ms. Thomas for five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you so much, everyone, for taking the time to be with us here today.

My first question is going to Sara.

Sara, one of the things you talked about is previous legislation that was brought forward—Bill C-63—and you outlined a few concerns you have with that legislation. Of course, it's not on the table anymore. It died when we went into an election last spring. However, the government is now talking about bringing forward future legislation.

There were a number of criticisms against Bill C-63, and there were a number of really great things about Bill C-63. As the government looks to put legislation in place, I'm curious about whether you wish to highlight the things that absolutely need to be part of that legislation and the things that absolutely need to be left out or done differently.

[Sara Austin]

Thank you, MP Thomas, for the opportunity to speak, and thank you for your ongoing support for and commitment to amplifying the voices of children and youth and protecting our children.

As you know, Children First Canada has joined forces with many leading experts: the Canadian Medical Association; the Canadian Pediatric Society; children's hospitals such as SickKids, CHEO and McMaster Children's Hospital; tech experts and mental health experts; and on and on. We all agree on the importance of an online safety act and that a social media ban alone will not solve this problem. We need robust legislation.

On what worked in Bill C-63, tabled last year, the important elements included a duty of care: the clear and enforceable obligation on platforms to prevent foreseeable harms. It included important elements about independent public oversight, with an independent regulator with real enforcement powers and technical capacity, transparency and authority. Those are important elements that must continue in a new bill that gets tabled.

I've spoken already about—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

I'm sorry to interrupt. The interpreters are having a bit of difficulty, Ms. Austin.

[Sara Austin]

I'm sorry. I'm a fast talker. I'll slow down.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Would you mind lowering your boom? Lower your boom and slow down a bit.

[Sara Austin]

All right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

I'll give you a bit of extra time.

[Sara Austin]

Thank you.

Other important elements are about youth protections by design: age-appropriate design elements, limiting addictive features, meaningful defaults for minors and safeguards for AI-enabled abuse. These are some really important elements.

What was missing in the previous bill was around AI systems. We've seen so much emerge in recent months—even in recent weeks—around AI-fuelled harms for children. That is an important aspect to capture in a new bill that is tabled. There were controversial aspects to the previous bill, particularly the concerns about limiting free speech. Obviously, that needs to go by the wayside. We need to drop what didn't work or what raised significant concerns and really focus on what's most important.

Again, I plead with all members of Parliament: Whatever your political stripe may be, we need to work together. We need the best and brightest minds working together. We've seen MPs from all federal parties attempt to bring forward bills. MP Rempel Garner tabled her own legislation. We really need everybody working together, with the best interests of our children at heart, to find a solution that works for all Canadians.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I'm sorry. I know that was a lot to rattle off. I really appreciate that, though. That's very helpful as we move forward and consider what to do with the hearings for this report.

One of the other things you've made comments on is with regard to the recent developments concerning X and the use of Grok, and the impact that has had on all people who have been impacted by a misuse of this AI tool. In particular, there's a vulnerability for children. Would you care to comment on what you're observing there?

[Sara Austin]

We've seen in recent weeks the real escalation of AI-enabled harms. Grok has been the most notable example, where we've seen X being used as a platform to amplify harms, particularly against women and children. That went on for far too long. The company was profiting from that.

It's egregious harm. While our government did not take a clear position, we saw governments in the U.K. and otherwise stepping up and taking clear positions on that. We need Canada to be a leader in this space, not a laggard.

When we think about AI, it's not just on social media platforms and it's not just on X. Grok is in Tesla cars. We've seen examples of this. Kids are sitting in their family vehicle and engaging with Grok, which is automatically uploaded to a Tesla car, and kids have been harmed. As you know, Grok is prompting kids to share nudes, for crying out loud. I mean, it is absurd the level of harm that our kids are being exposed to.

We cannot look at regulating this simply for social media. We need to look at the whole digital landscape that our kids are exposed to: in their family vehicles, on their school laptops, on their phones and on every digital device they're exposed to. We need comprehensive legislation that looks at the full landscape. We really urge Canada to go above and beyond what Australia and France have done and table a robust online safety act that protects children and protects all Canadians.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

That's awesome. Thank you so much, Sara.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

I did not know that was happening in cars. Thank you.

Mr. Myles, you have the floor for five minutes.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to all the witnesses who are here today. It is a fascinating and really important discussion.

MP Thomas scooped my question, and it was a great question. Regarding the previous online harms bill, I was looking for thoughts on where it might have fallen short. I didn't realize there was as much unanimous support for that bill as there appears to be in the room. I agree that it seems to have a place to come back.

I want to frame the conversation a bit, because it seems that each of us is talking about different levels of responsibility. One is the heavy-handed responsibility of the government to call for a ban of social media. I think, as Carol Todd mentioned, it's important to note the difference between being online and being on social media. We are talking about a different thing when we're talking about a social media ban. Then there's the responsibility of the social media companies to create safety by design. The other part is about the responsibility of parents and kids and healthy habits.

I think we're all coming at this from different angles, but realistically, what I'm hearing is that healthy habits can't happen in isolation. Healthy habits by themselves and education aren't going to cut it, because the algorithm itself needs to be adjusted. There needs to be safety by design.

I want to talk to Zachary for a second.

First of all, well done for being here. I was not at your level at 12 years old. I will say I'm very impressed.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

You're close now, though.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

I'm getting there. That's a very good point. I'm catching up to Zachary very slowly.

I want to talk to you, because you mentioned the idea of making this safe. You know these spaces. You know where the problems are and what, let's say, safety by design looks like for you.

How can you interact with these platforms? Are you interacting with social media or just online platforms? What does responsibility look like in that way?

[Zachary Fathally]

If I understand well, you basically asked me what social media I use.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Yes, and I think at one point you said, “Make safety the default”, which I thought was a really good point, so I just wanted to talk about that a bit.

[Zachary Fathally]

What I mean by “make safety the default” is that, for online platforms, you shouldn't have to find workarounds so you can be safe online. When you're online, you want the first thing in your mind when you're building a website to be, “Are kids or people in general going to be safe?” Do you know what I mean?

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Absolutely. I appreciate that, because I think it's what we're talking about. It becomes a responsibility of those creating these platforms to create a space that is inherently safe for kids to engage with if they're going to be allowed to engage with them.

Do you engage? Do you have social media as well?

[Zachary Fathally]

Yes, but I only use YouTube, and my email is on Gmail. That's it.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Thank you very much. It's great to have you here.

I wonder, Maude, if you can speak to the three elements to this.

We've talked about healthy habits and all that, but I sometimes wonder how we can address the three factors that are important.

[Maude Bonenfant]

When it comes to regulation, we know we need it because we've let the industry run wild and it's not working. On the industry side, once there are rules, they are guidelines that apply to all companies. As such, each platform must normally comply with them, at the risk of being sued, which we are starting to see for all kinds of violations to the laws that have been put in place.

Furthermore, given the responsibility to ensure that a space is safe for the age group it's targeting, when platforms want to put forward, for example, an Instagram account for young people and children, they must ensure that the settings are configured to create a space that is truly safe for young people. For example, this could be done with default settings because, currently, the default settings are completely open. If, on the contrary, young people are made to unlock the settings one by one, they would learn.

This brings us to the third pillar, which is education. Young people are extremely bright. They are aware. They know and feel in their bodies and in their mental health that some things are not working. They look to adults. They are therefore in a world where they respond very well to devices by staying glued to the screen, and a world where adults do not protect them as they should. It's in this context that we need to talk to them and listen to them. It's great, because Zachary expresses himself extremely well, what he says is brilliant, and we really need to listen to him.

There are organizations that go out into the field. In Quebec, an organization called Le Ciel sends people to schools to listen to young people. Young people talk about their problems with these people. This is a two-way educational process. Adults are also starting to learn about what is going on. Together, we must try to build healthy lifestyles, talk about how to introduce screens and then social media at a certain point in a general way, in order to reap the benefits and limit harms.

Of course, laws are guidelines, which brings me back to my starting point. Laws obviously work to regulate the industry, but also to convey information to parents. They receive information to indicate, for example, that this is bad before the age of 13 for reasons X and Y. It's also a way to raise their awareness. They are guides that adults, children and teenagers can grow up with and say to themselves, for example, that this has been defined by science, which says that from a certain age, there should not be such a feature.

There is this interaction between the three factors.