Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you.

Mr. Champoux, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Desrosiers, one of the recommendations you presented to the committee really strikes a chord with me. It's the one that consists of redistributing the proceeds from the proposed tax on digital services, the infamous DST, which the government withdrew in the hope of gaining advantages in its negotiations with Mr. Trump, which came to nothing. The Bloc Québécois is proposing to bring back this tax in the form of a levy to help the media and culture sectors.

You are proposing it to the committee for a different purpose, I imagine.

We know that this tax could generate $1.2 billion or $1.3 billion in revenue per year. So it's an interesting tool.

How would you allocate the funds generated by this tax?

[Guy Desrosiers]

I would reallocate it to all the necessary actions. We talked about lifestyle habits earlier, but the funds could also be allocated to the media world, which is suffering greatly from the aspirations of the digital giants, who are sucking up the entire economy. There are the media, but also retail, among others. I think it's necessary for all of society.

I would go further and say that these funds could help change a social phenomenon, a health phenomenon. There is something called the Ottawa Charter for Health Promotion, which you all know about, since you are in Ottawa. According to the Ottawa charter, to address a phenomenon, we must educate individuals and take action on environments, laws and institutions. We have talked about education in schools and laws to regulate societies and empower individuals, both young people and parents. I therefore refer you to this model for action, the Ottawa charter, which is used around the world to address social issues.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

You've also raised an interesting point, which is that the programs and initiatives that have been put in place are not well known. Perhaps they are not well publicized. We discovered this during our study. There are a host of very interesting initiatives that have been proposed to us by various groups from across Canada, including Quebec.

Translating tools is not a given, because it incurs costs. Organizations don't always have the means to undertake this translation work.

Beyond translation, how can we raise awareness of the tools you mentioned, such as MediaSmarts, a group that testified before this committee, as well as Media-Start and others?

[Guy Desrosiers]

Yes, there is also Cybertip, for example. There are indeed several solutions that exist, but they're not well known due to a lack of funding. The lack of funding also prevents some resources from being properly translated, since we don't rely solely on artificial intelligence for translation. When you're in the health care field, you must validate your content.

Earlier, one woman, whose name escapes me, gave a presentation that was every bit as interesting as all the others, and she said she was looking for tools for parents. I would tell her to visit the PAUSE website, pauseyourscreen.com or pausetonécran.com. There she will find resources for parents, educators and young people. There are quizzes, self-tests and references for people experiencing problems. These are all Canadian references that we try to put online as much as possible to help you.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

In closing, I want to repeat what I said earlier to my colleague Mr. Waugh, who seemed much more pessimistic than I am about the usefulness of the data and information we're gathering in this study.

It's true that much of the work has not resulted in concrete legislative proposals. Some bills have died on the Order Paper, of course, but I am hopeful that what we have done as part of this study will be useful.

All of you should rest assured that your testimony has been extremely valuable and that we will certainly take it into account in the recommendations we make to our analysts for drafting the report.

This report will not be shelved, Mr. Waugh.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Ms. Thomas, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

All right, my first question is for Josephine.

Josephine, you have the undivided attention of members of Parliament from the Bloc Québécois, the Liberals and the Conservatives. Our eyes are entirely on a screen in front of us, and you are on that screen. If there is a message you want to drive home today about young people using social media and what government can do to make things better for you and your peers, what do you want us to know?

[Josephine Maharaj]

Hello. I think what the government needs to know is that any sort of success with a social media ban or restriction or with having an Internet we are not beholden to would come from communicating with young people. Young people include children, teenagers and young adults. It's not just one group or category of youth.

Also, I think success for us would look like an Internet that is still there, that exists, as does social media, and it's going to continue to. A sentiment that has been repeated often today by the witnesses is that we're not looking to abandon the Internet or social media. It's here to stay.

Success is the ability to navigate it mindfully and to log off and live our lives, without it being easily accessible all the time. It's a tool, at the end of the day, and tools are meant to be put down.

In terms of sextortion, image-based abuse and CSAM, whether it's generated by AI or collected by predators, it has real-life consequences by those who commit heinous acts of harm.

I think that's what I have to say.

Thank you very much, MP Thomas, for the time to speak.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

You're very welcome. Thank you so much for answering the question. I know it can be a bit overwhelming in this group, but you spoke very well.

My next question is for Luna.

I was reading a number of things, and one thing that came up for me in my reading was that the amount of child abuse rose significantly during the COVID-19 pandemic. I was curious whether you could comment as to why that might be the case and how Luna was able to respond to that.

[Karen Orser]

We saw a significant increase over time through COVID. Particularly as the pandemic carried on and kids were back in school, lots of abuse was reported.

It's hard to have a really clear, definitive answer. However, I would say that educators are often the number one reporting source.

During that time, when kids were out of school, we saw increases in abuse in the home. We saw an increase in sibling abuse. As the pandemic went along, we saw increasing reports near the end as those reports came in and kids started to get back in school. Then those reports and disclosures came forward. It was a staggering increase that we saw after COVID.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Wow.

[Karen Orser]

School was a significant protective factor.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Yes, that's an excellent observation. Thank you for sharing that.

One thing you also talked about in your opening remarks was that you're seeing an increase in the number of cases coming forward where some sort of online contact is part of the larger picture of abuse. Do you care to comment on that and what you're observing and why that might be?

[Karen Orser]

I think it's the vast amount of exposure that children have. We're not talking minutes; it's hours and hours a day. Kids are connected almost all the time. I did provide some stats in my brief on that.

At some point, the huge amount of increased exposure is increasing the probability that they're being contacted through these applications. Then we're seeing that those online instances are often translating to in-person, where kids are meeting offenders in public, in malls and in cars.

I will also re-reference the increase in sexual exploitation files that we're seeing at Luna. Those are related to ease of access to kids online.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Maybe I'll put my final question this way: What is the number one thing that we as legislators need to know as we're considering legislation?

[Karen Orser]

I don't know that I could say it any better than Josephine, Sara or any of the other witnesses. I think I've heard today that all of the answers are here and are very clear. It's also very clear that the complexity of this issue, like any other large, messy social problem, requires a multipronged approach. We need to do something.

I think somebody earlier on said that we can't wait till we have a perfect solution. Kids are being harmed every single day. In everything we do in working toward solutions and integrating our knowledge and the understanding we have of the severe, long-term social and economic consequences for children, their families and our society, we need to move forward every day with something. This is about educating children, parents and teachers. It is about holding platforms accountable. It is about engaging everybody in this without delay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you.

Mr. Myles, you have the floor for the final five minutes.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Josephine, I'll go back to you for a second, because your testimony was really great.

You mentioned that it's a tool and I agree. I think part of what we're struggling with is whether it, as it exists right now, is too addictive or too dangerous a tool for people to use.

I think early on when we did this, we talked about cigarettes and the idea of who has access to them, how we regulate them and how heavily regulated they are now. We know that social media is super addictive.

Primarily, Josephine, I just wonder if in your mind, as a person who interacts with social media, you feel that it, as it exists now, needs to be regulated or changed given the way it behaves, the way you interact with it and how it interacts with you?

[Josephine Maharaj]

That's a big question.

I will only be able to answer it from the perspective as a teenager—not someone Zachary's age or even younger who is online.

When we engage with it mindfully and remember how powerful it is.... I think one common saying is that it's basically a rocket in our hands. That's one thing that was parroted to me when I was younger. When we engage with that mindset, it can be good. It can be used for good. It can be used to communicate with others and experience, or at least listen to, people's perspectives that are different from our own.

Originally, way back in 2000, the olden days—or not the olden days, but when it was originally presented to us—it was presented to us as a form of communication. At the end of the day, if we take the time to think about how we interact with it, it can be used for that intent. Obviously, it can also be used as a form of harm, as we've heard today from the witnesses and as I'm sure you've also heard in the other committee hearings.

I'm not sure if that answers the question exactly, but that's my own experience of it. It can be good if we're mindful.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

It absolutely does. It's so great to hear you speak. I feel like this is a voice that we've been missing in this committee, and it is really valuable to have you express it so clearly. Thank you very much.

I'll ask a question of Sara Austin, if it's okay.

I have a question about regulations and regulating big tech. Now that we're seeing it happen in international environments, what do you see as the probability...? How does that go down?

I understand there are lots of lawsuits in America, but what are we seeing internationally in terms of getting under the hood and regulating big tech?

[Sara Austin]

Canada has an opportunity now to look to other countries. Canada has already been studying this for years. We know that our government, the Department of Canadian Heritage and the Department of Justice have looked at models in Europe and around the world. They've looked at the best practices.

They obviously had a false start last year with Bill C-63. There were flaws in it. We know that the current minister of heritage has been working on new legislation. This committee has been hearing from numerous experts on this topic. There's clear consensus from a wide range of experts that an online safety act needs to include core elements around the duty of care, independent regulations, safety by default, age-appropriate design and public interest research so that data can be accessible in order to measure the harms and have AI systems in scope.

There is a clear consensus from leading experts across Canada on this topic. We can't look at a social media ban alone. We need to look at online regulations that look at the full scope of digital harms affecting children.

We're urging the government to get this legislation tabled and for all members of Parliament to work together, to find consensus and to work quickly. Again, it's not going to be the silver bullet, but we know what has worked in other jurisdictions. We can take the best-in-class examples, apply them here in Canada and amend the legislation as the digital landscape evolves.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Quickly, are the big tech companies in these international experiences changing their behaviour in those circumstances?

[Sara Austin]

They're being forced to change behaviour and being held accountable when there are consequences and when they've caused harm. We know that in Canada the tech industry is funding a major effort to try to oppose this legislation. It should get all our spidey senses up.

We see Meta funding studies that support age restrictions, because it lets them off the hook. Meta will be off the hook if we impose age restrictions, because that doesn't force them to change any of their behaviour. It puts the onus back on Apple for doing the age verification.

We need legislation that looks at this in a robust way and that follows best practices from jurisdictions around the world. That's where we create a solution that really puts our children first.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

I think that's a really important point. Thank you very much for bringing that up.