Evidence of meeting #32 for Canadian Heritage in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was advertising.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Kerry Diotte Conservative Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Do you mention that his son works for the Prime Minister?
Conservative
Conservative
Kerry Diotte Conservative Edmonton Griesbach, AB
When Justin Trudeau won in 2015, Bruce Anderson, whose daughter worked in the PMO, recused himself from the At Issue panel when commenting on the CBC. Does the CBC have higher ethics than CTV?
Vice-President, CTV News, Bell Media Inc.
No, not at all.
I'm not familiar with what you just shared. However, based on what you said, he chose to recuse himself.
Conservative
Kerry Diotte Conservative Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Is that not the journalistic and ethical thing to do when you have a direct conflict of interest—for instance, the conflict of this person on your panel who has somebody who works for the Prime Minister of Canada?
Vice-President, CTV News, Bell Media Inc.
We do not misrepresent the point of view that Scott Reid offers. We label him as a Liberal every time he appears on air.
Conservative
Kerry Diotte Conservative Edmonton Griesbach, AB
He's more than just a Liberal, however. His son works, I'm told, for the Prime Minister of Canada. You don't disclose that.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC
It appears I'm about the only one who hasn't worked in the media.
I use the media a lot, as probably all members do in their respective ridings. The Groupe Radio Simard operates three radio stations in my riding. I'll take this opportunity to thank it for the important work it does.
Mr. Lorrain, earlier you briefly mentioned the tax credit.
Has the radio industry ever estimated what the loss of revenue from the Government of Canada would cost if a tax credit were put in place for radio, as has just been done in Quebec?
President and broadcasting consultant, MLorrain Conseils, Groupe Radio Simard
To the best of my recollection, I don't think such a study has been done across the country.
Having said that, this is a question of fairness. Two categories of journalists have been created in Canada: those who work for print media and those who work for electronic media.
As you know, companies that employ print journalists are entitled to a tax credit of 35%, up to a cap of, I think, about $85,000.
If for no other reason than fairness, this measure should be extended to the entire electronic media sector, whether radio or television.
To answer your question, no, the calculation hasn't been done.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC
That's why the committee is conducting this study on fairness to the media.
Ms. Jamet, Mr. Gray or Mr. Pineault, are you able to tell us how much funding you currently receive from Google?
President, Cogeco Media inc.
Yes, we get a little less than $800,000.
I want to mention something, though. Our company is at a disadvantage compared to large, vertically integrated groups. Groups that operate multiple media outlets, such as television, radio and digital, receive significant amounts of money.
As for us, we operate in a single segment of the industry, namely, radio and audio. I would like to point out that we are active in the digital sector as well. Radio delivered through mobile apps on cellphones is still radio. Everyone carries a radio with them at all times.
That said, the amounts we receive are much lower. In fact, they are insufficient.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC
Do you want to add anything, Mr. Pineault?
General Manager, News and Operations, Bell Media Inc.
For Bell Media as a whole, we're talking about $8 million.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC
Do I have any time left?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lisa Hepfner
You have 10 seconds.
I will turn the floor over to Mr. Myles again for five minutes.
Liberal
David Myles Liberal Fredericton—Oromocto, NB
Thank you very much.
I'm just taking this opportunity to get some clarification on how we've arrived here and how best to move forward. We've heard a little bit in the House about more organizations being able to access some of these support funds, notably Corus Entertainment. Maybe there's someone here who can speak to what has happened to the fund, obviously, as more people have been able to apply to it and what that means for the reality of your organizations now—if I'm making any sense. I think this is a pertinent issue because it has come up in the House a couple of times. I just wonder if there are any thoughts on that.
President, Cogeco Media inc.
I would say that the radio industry is particularly disadvantaged.
Let's look at the media industry as a whole. Newspapers have been receiving funding for several years. As for the television model, it was established a long time ago, and that sector benefits from tax credits. In television production, there is essentially no financial risk, because all of the funding is predetermined. In radio, we produce all of our content, and that production is not financially supported.
The programs introduced in recent years have favoured print media and television. As for radio, aside from the Google fund and the small regional news fund, which, I should note, is temporary and excludes major urban centres, we don't have access to comparable programs.
I think this deserves serious consideration, because the radio industry is fundamental. This medium has existed for a long time, and it remains very strong. The radio industry needs to be examined specifically. This inequity vis-à-vis other platforms and media, which have been supported for many years, must come to an end.
Liberal
Chief Executive Officer, Gonez Media Inc.
I also want to make reference to the fact that for a lot of the media companies here, and the one that you just referenced, for example, it's not just news that they do. It's also content creation. Outside of the programs that we've been talking about today, there are other programs with that type of content creation, whether it's television programs or whatever, that are able to touch into resources like CMF, the Canada Media Fund.
My organization creates similar types of content that get distributed on platforms like YouTube, for example, or on digital platforms like TikTok, and we don't have any access to CMF funding because we don't get a broadcast letter from any of the broadcasters. However, we pour extensive resources into creating this content. It's watched by hundreds of thousands of Canadians every single week, and we do so without the advantages that some of our bigger competitors are able to tap into.
As we're talking about this, I want to also mention that we're looking not just at the few programs that we've been talking about—the tax credits, LJI, the Google money—but there are other public funds that taxpayers are pouring into that digital start-ups are still not able to tap into. We still have to talk about the gates that are still being closed on digital start-ups in this country.
Liberal
David Myles Liberal Fredericton—Oromocto, NB
I appreciate that. I'm glad you brought it up. Of course, we're focusing on the journalism part, but that's been a conversation that I've had for sure on the content creation side, on the YouTube side.
Specifically, just to go back a little bit, Mr. Gonez, in terms of what you mentioned at the intro, in terms of some of the incentives that could be there for innovation, what do you think specifically that might look like?
Chief Executive Officer, Gonez Media Inc.
I think it could look a plethora of ways. There could be a tax incentive where digital media companies get a portion of what they spend on innovation written off, for example, or back as a subsidy. There could be a special fund that's created potentially by advertisers who spend on digital platforms—like Meta, for example—for advertising. Maybe there's a percentage that goes into a fund that can be deployed just to digital media companies because, again, that's what our model is based on. We can't tap into other programs because we don't own infrastructure on the airwaves, for example, or licences, like radio licences or TV licences.
It is an opportunity to think of different ways, but I would start off with an incentive program. Again, I also don't want to create an industry where we're solely reliant on these government programs to survive. I would rather an industry where it's so robust that advertisers and companies are inclined to spend money with Canadian digital media companies because it just makes sense. Actually, we want it to make dollars, not cents. You know what I mean.
Again, I want us to think about this as a full multipronged approach.