Canadian Heritage Committee on May 28th, 2026

[Jennifer Brewin]

Spending money on cultural spaces and making sure they're safe, clean, inviting and welcoming are not just about bricks and mortar. They're about having the resources in the building to support artists so they can make art. They don't have to produce art, and they don't have to write grants, necessarily. We can support them in the financial administration of their projects. I don't want to take money away from the arts and those artists, but I think our big institutions have an opportunity to support their independence and agency.

[Erin Benjamin]

Thank you for that important question. It's been the foundational question my entire career to this date.

I've spent 35 years advocating for the industry side of the live music sector. I believe we have in this country a remarkable opportunity. I referenced the promoter program and the festival support component of the Canada music fund. We also see the Canada arts presentation fund, the building communities through arts and heritage program, and all of the Heritage supports.

I've talked to PS Myles about a broader Canadian live music strategy. We need to look to other countries to understand how they're incentivizing growth in this sector. We need to treat these independent and all live music spaces as a legitimate industry—again, it's almost $11 billion to GDP and 100,000 jobs—and understand the growth potential. We are so far from harnessing the potential of this sector.

As I said, during COVID, it was the first time there were direct investments in the independent venue and promoter space in the history of this country. This is a segment of our economy that is underutilized and misunderstood. That is why this study is so important.

You asked a question about artists, which is very important—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

I'm sorry. I don't want to cut you off, but we are out of time for that question. We'll get back to you.

Mr. Champoux, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Kearney, let me turn to you right away.

In your opening remarks, you talked at length about the Live Nation situation, which is a major concern and raises a lot of questions. I have to tell you that we have heard you and we are extremely worried by it all. Discussions are taking place and pressure is being applied so that the rules can be changed to the benefit of many in the environment who are harmed by the actions of certain huge multinationals. As you know, this does not just affect festivals and shows, it also affects a number of other aspects of cultural life in Quebec and Canada.

I would like to talk to you a little about the state of festivals. Your group, REFRAIN, represents many regional festivals and many small festivals that are extremely diverse and often thematic. They reveal aspects of our culture that are not easily available, or not as easily presented outside a festival structure.

Could you tell us a little about the ways in which these festivals have to fund themselves? Do some organizers feel a kind of lack of commitment on the part of the federal government? I personally receive several appeals along those lines. How can we get back on track and make sure that these festivals, significant and often underfunded as they are, as I said, can continue to present their offerings?

[Patrick Kearney]

Those festivals certainly do play a really important role in the development of the artists' careers. They are often the gateway for new or mid-level artists. We did a small study that showed that festivals with fifty or so artists is like being at a huge buffet. You can consume a lot of culture and meet a lot of artists. Then you can choose to go and see them elsewhere. Festivals are an important complement to, say, the independent performance facilities that Jon Weisz represents. It's a continuum.

Certainly, funding is always a challenge. The problem we have with Canadian Heritage is that the department gives us some money, but not more money, despite there being more festivals. Here's an example: we receive $25,000 for a festival. When we apply for the same festival the next year, we receive $22,000. Funding decreases because the feds distribute their funds to all eligible festivals.

So there are two solutions: Either provide more money, or turn off the tap and have no additional festivals. Except that—

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

When you lose funding like that, what goes on the festivals' chopping block first?

[Patrick Kearney]

Given the increasing cost of living, which affects everyone, festivals included, the cuts end up being to the programming. It means that we have to make do with fewer artists, who unfortunately are often the emerging ones. A festival has to sell tickets, so it keeps its headliners but does not keep the lesser-known artists. That does nothing for the new generation.

We now have the same challenge at Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada. It seems that, in certain regions, festivals are being abandoned in favour of other areas of the economy.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes, that's true.

[Patrick Kearney]

So that's what we are up against.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I will turn to you now, Mr. Weisz.

We met in a private facility in my constituency. It's in Drummondville and is called the Espace Mandeville. It was about one of your members: a producer of shows that really weren't suitable for the larger halls.

Can you give me some more details about the need for and the importance of these stages for artists who may not necessarily be on their way to bigger halls or bigger festivals? Tell me a little about your clients.

[Jon Weisz]

Most Quebec artists perform on our stages. Relatively few artists are able to sell enough tickets to tour in theatres and cultural venues. So a large majority of artists, both Quebecker and Canadian, touring in Quebec need our network in order to make a living. In a way, it's funny that we named our association the Scènes de musique alternatives du Québec because for a critical mass of artists, there's nothing alternative about it; it's where they earn most of their living.

I feel that the key role our network plays in the careers of these artists is not well understood.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Weisz, an illustration of what you are saying, I feel, is that the performance venues that belong to your association are very often, for many artists, the first rung on the ladder. If that first rung is removed, they just can't climb up. That's why the venues are essential.

When we met last year, we started to discuss a funding issue. The issue is that, for some of the facilities to survive, they have to be multi-use, meaning that they may have to have a bar, or be part of a complex, like a deconsecrated church that is now a cultural centre. But when a space has a number of uses, it causes a problem with funding programs.

Do your members still have that problem with funding programs?

[Jon Weisz]

Yes, absolutely. Most of our venues have to provide restaurant or bar services, or to offer accommodation, in order to preserve their cultural mandate, because there are not enough grants for culture. So, only with those sources of revenue can independent artists be showcased.

But we have a wide array of business models in our network. That makes it a network that some funders do not understand very well, even though there's a willingness to help, up to a certain point. It's a reality where a lot of education is needed.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Weisz.

[Jon Weisz]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Mr. Waugh, it's over to you for six minutes.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon South, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Chipkar and Mr. Etienne, as you may recall, just 13 months ago, the Prime Minister at the time, Mark Carney, referred to China as the biggest security threat to this country. Now he's allowing 49,000 Chinese EVs into this country. In fact, I was in Vancouver a couple of months ago as they were preparing to take them off the ships. They're expanding trade with China.

Falun Dafa, what are your thoughts about this? Thirteen months ago, they were the biggest threat, and today we seem to be in bed with them.

[Joel Chipkar]

Our concern is that when we start to ignore the interference and transnational oppression happening in Canada, it doesn't just become a Falun Gong or Shen Yun issue; it's everybody's issue. Like all of the young artists we're speaking about today, what if a young artist wants to write a great song about democracy and anti-Communism? Are they going to be attacked by the Chinese Communist Party here in Canada?

When it comes to the National Arts Centre, after 18 years, we're concerned because we can see the power of the Chinese Communist Party influence. They had over 20 correspondence with NAC executives and CCP diplomats on cultural co-operation, and then just months later, Shen Yun was cancelled with no reason that held up to scrutiny. All the reasons didn't hold up to scrutiny. When we start putting our democracy, our freedom of the arts, our freedom of speech and our freedom of belief on the back burner to please China for trade, we're losing our country.

[Joel Etienne]

We've heard the Prime Minister speak about standing up to America, and every day we do business with the Americans—they're our best friends—yet we're maintaining our Canadian values and principles in relation to the Americans. I'd like to see the same—Canada standing up to the CCP.

This department and our country have a history of standing up for the freedom of cultural expression. We did it during Jim Crow. Don't forget Josephine Baker, Billie Holiday, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Jackie Robinson in sports, Jack Johnson and Willie O'Ree. We stood up to Jim Crow, did business with the Americans and stood up for the Canadian values of equality and decency.

I just can't understand for the life of me.... During the Cold War in 1972, there were Paul Henderson and Ken Dryden. The east and the west were just about to nuke each other, but we were allowed to play hockey without foreign interference and without any bomb threats, and push the advancements of international brotherhood through cultural expression without any interference.

If the federal government wants to do business with China, that's an issue for a different discussion on another day, but there's no reason we can't stand up for Canadians and their right to express themselves through arts and culture on stages.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon South, SK]

Thank you.

I'm from Saskatchewan, so I better ask the question, Ms. Brewin. There has been a lot of controversy in the province over the last three weeks with the Globe Theatre. What are your thoughts on the Little Red Warrior, the comedy that took place at Regina's Campbell Collegiate? Was there a misunderstanding on the age clarification, 14- and 16-year-olds?

I'm going to give you some time now, because it is 6:30 in Saskatchewan, and you knew this question was coming. Can you clarify what happened?

[Jennifer Brewin]

Wow. That's interesting.

First of all, Little Red Warrior is a play, but let me take a step back.

What your question is addressing—and it comes off the previous conversation—is the idea of cultural diversity, diversity of communities and diversity of ideas. The idea that we live in a community with multiple realities and cultural realities is something the arts get to show off and embrace.

In terms of Little Red Warrior, this play has been produced across the country. It's by a Governor General's Award-winning playwright. It has been produced for students for high school matinees many times. The script was available to the teachers. The script follow-up conversations were had with the schools and the teachers, and the content was revealed to them. That's one part of the problem we had.

There was a school that showed up—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

I have to cut you off there. I'm sorry, but we're a minute over already.

Ms. Auguste, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

My thanks to everyone for joining us today.

A media report published in January 2026 dealt with the issue of new approaches to the use of their activity space by artists' organizations. For example, in Calgary, there's a network of heritage buildings, like King Edward School, more than 100 years old, that has been converted into a space for the arts. I am also thinking about the director of the Halifax Folklore Centre in Nova Scotia, who organized an open-mike acoustic evening in a funeral home. I could also talk about Terrebonne, my own constituency, where heritage buildings are used as spaces for artists to present their works. In my opinion, making buildings that would otherwise sit empty part of emerging culture is a good practice.

Mr. Weisz and Mr. Kearney, how can we encourage practices of those kinds? What role can the various levels of government play in encouraging those practices?

[Jon Weisz]

Our primary role is to guarantee the survival and the continued existence of spaces that are already being used for performances. But there are a number of wonderful projects, certainly in Quebec, with the aim of transforming deconsecrated churches and “third places” into performance spaces. But SMAQ's priority is to ensure the long-term survival of existing performance spaces that are threatened and marginalized.

If a performance space closes its doors, it is very rarely replaced by another one. These are cultural assets that must be protected at all costs.

Of course, we are not opposed to the idea of using unoccupied spaces as performance venues. But that must not be done at the expense of the spaces that are managed by passionate, talented people, who are very often having a hard time keeping their spaces open and their stages available for Quebec artists.

[Patrick Kearney]

Festivals use a lot of what are called temporary or pop-up spaces. During a festival, a group may perform in a fire station, a church or a community centre, for example. I feel that it suits the nature of a festival well. After all, the main idea is to provide access to more artists.

Festivals are where you may see pop-up shows, as they are called. They are spontaneous or surprise shows with new artists, or with an established artist who wants to do something different from the rest. But I agree with Mr. Weisz: It's intended to be spontaneous and I feel that we must always use it because it is a way to make art available. But we have to consolidate the performance spaces we have, including Mr. Weisz's network of small halls.

After introducing a new artist in a festival, we start looking for a performance venue. Often the major halls cannot take artists of that kind because not enough people are ready to buy tickets and because the costs to operate a large hall are very high. The opportunity often comes from independent venues, hence the importance of their complementary role in the continuum that we all must have together.