Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 1st, 2025

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

You have no definition of hate speech. Is that correct?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you. That's your time.

Mr. Myles, you have the floor for five minutes.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I think we're mainly speaking about Bill C-11 here, so I'm going to come back to it.

First of all, this is a very important piece of legislation, for all the reasons we've talked about today, particularly in terms of the money that has been generated for the ecosystem over a number of years and also in terms of regulating the digital space as traditional broadcasting has been regulated for years and years, which has benefited Canadians and Canadian content. There's no reason why we can't move into the future and do the same thing in the digital realm in the Internet era. I understand that it's huge work, and I commend you for it.

I am a little concerned about enforcement. Maybe you can't talk about the legal challenge, but maybe you can. What I'm really curious about is some of the resistance that you've received from the streaming services and what the legal challenge looks like.

[Vicky Eatrides]

I will turn things over to my colleague Scott in just a moment.

Yes, there are legal challenges before the courts, but in terms of the public proceedings that we've held, we did receive a number of diverse views, including from the streamers, on those public proceedings.

[Scott Shortliffe]

What we can say is that the streamers participate in our public proceedings. In one of the proceedings, they ultimately declined to appear in person, but they did in fact make representations, and they responded to our requests for information, of which we had many, and provided final replies. They've been fully involved, even up to the last few days, when Spotify and Apple appeared at our audio hearing. We have seen them be very willing to engage with us.

In terms of the legal proceeding, it's before the courts, so we obviously can't refer to what the court's decision will be. I will simply note that, in what they put before the court, they raised a number of technical issues as well as an overall issue. We don't know where the courts will go with any of this, but we need to proceed with our work. Appealing to the courts is something everyone has the right to do, so they have the right to do it. Frankly, Canadian broadcasters and other entities had recourse to the courts with other CRTC decisions in the past. It is a normal course of business. We will see what the courts decide. In the meantime, we will continue administering the act that Parliament entrusted us with.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

This is a nerdy question. I'm just wondering about accounting. How do you trust their accounting on the 5% amount?

[Scott Hutton]

That's my job. Data is king. Certainly, they are sharing some data with us, so we do get amounts directly from them with respect to subscribers or revenues. However, there are also a number of other services out there that we subscribe to in order to be able to estimate and verify that those numbers are correct.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

So, they have been forthcoming with the numbers.

[Scott Hutton]

They have been forthcoming with their own information. As with everyone else, we do verify it, and we have different means to be able to do that at the CRTC.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Is there any concept of a timeline around some of the CanCon definitions?

[Scott Shortliffe]

I'm going to be incredibly coy here and say “coming soon”. We have been working very hard on this, so it's coming soon.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

I appreciate it.

Obviously, these are really complex questions and very important questions, I think, for all of us. This will determine what gets funding and how we're going to work towards discoverability.

Discoverability is a big question. Has there been resistance in actually modifying the algorithm itself?

[Scott Shortliffe]

As Mr. Hutton mentioned in answer to an earlier question, the bill actually says that we cannot require them to touch the algorithm. I will say, on the record, that the streaming companies have been quite forthcoming about what they do for discoverability and what they see its potential options are. When we've said to them, “Will you continue to engage with us around discoverability as we investigate it more?”, they certainly seem open to that dialogue. Now, does that mean that they will like our eventual decisions? We can't say, but they have indicated that they understand the importance of this and of engaging in this discussion with us, as have traditional broadcasters and other players in Canada. I think everyone realizes that discoverability is an absolutely key question when you're talking about Canadian content. Simply having it produced and sitting on a shelf is not good enough.

I see I'm getting the hook, so I'll stop here.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Thank you very much.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Shortliffe.

I will go over to Mr. Champoux for two and a half minutes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm concerned about that court decision. If the court agrees with the platforms' arguments and they don't have to pay the 5%, what recourse would there be? Could the CRTC, on its own, make another decision and start from there, or should we redo the legislative work and submit, for example, an amendment to the bill on online broadcasting?

[Vicky Eatrides]

It would depend on the decision.

If the court found that the decision was not correct, the reason for that decision would inspire us to decide on the next steps.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Do you have any idea to what side the court's decision will lean? What is your intuition as to the viability of your decision? Are your prognoses correct?

[Vicky Eatrides]

Personally, I think so—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Vicky Eatrides]

Unfortunately, we don't know.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

That's good. You gave your opinion on the matter. I find that very helpful.

Earlier, we started talking about sharing infrastructure for cellphones and the Internet. You also said there were measures in place that required large businesses to reinvest in networks and infrastructure.

I'll give an example, and I don't favour one company over another, but let's take the case of Telus and Rogers, which are entering the market in my region, in Drummond. They are offering plans using existing networks, existing infrastructure. Do they have an obligation to invest in the markets where they will generate revenue, or are they only required to invest in their infrastructure, as all businesses are required to do?

[Scott Hutton]

Based on the measures we've put in place and mentioned to you, we make sure that those who rent their network are able to make the necessary investments. We don't scrutinize the investments they make in each market, but rather the rate that has been set, so they can make sure they have the funds to properly maintain their network.

In other cases, we generally make sure that the networks are reliable. Various proceedings of ours have already concluded—others are under way—to ensure that everything that's going on, whether it's in the environment—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you for your explanation, Mr. Hutton.

Next is Mr. Dawson.

[Mike Dawson, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I didn't hear an answer on whether Corus was getting 40% of the independent fund. All I got was that the fund was going from $18 million to $42 million.

Can you answer on how much Corus is getting?