Canadian Heritage Committee on June 4th, 2026

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Christy Morin]

This isn't the first time I've been asked this question.

I love community, and I love being.... In the middle—it's interesting—you can do a lot. Those people in the middle need to be able to work to the top and in the community. I love doing what I do.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

That's fair.

Should you have the opportunity to raise someone else up who could continue your good work and expand your legacy—if that would free up a bit of time for you to serve in the political sphere, should that be of interest to you—I think your city would greatly benefit from your leadership.

[Christy Morin]

You're so kind. Thank you so much.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I am going to move a motion at this point in time, Chair.

I believe it's a topic that is very important and relevant not only to the conversation here today but also to the larger national scene. It is a motion that is currently on notice, so there should be no problem with moving it. The motion I wish to move has to do with the CBC and a show that was created called Northland Tales.

I will read the motion into the record and then explain why it is so important.

I move the following motion, which states:

Given that,

the CBC and Northland Tales lured retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) officers under false pretences into participating in a cruel and humiliating “prank,” in which they were instructed to wear their uniforms, brought onto a stage before a live audience, and subsequently subjected to ridicule and public vilification;

The committee undertake an investigation into this incident and invite the Minister of Canadian Identity and Culture, the chief executive officer of CBC/Radio-Canada, the chief executive officer of APTN, and the producers of Northland Tales to testify for no less than two hours each and report to the House both its condemnation of these practices as well as its findings and recommendations upon the conclusion of the committee’s investigation.

Madam Chair, by way of background, the reason I am moving this motion today to investigate the conduct of the CBC is that it has been widely reported and verified that the CBC and APTN put together this production called Northland Tales, which tried to lure in an MP and has lured in academics and RCMP veterans, some in their seventies and eighties. They did it to humiliate them, to demonize Sir John A. Macdonald—the first prime minister of this country—and to blame veterans for residential schools. They did this under false pretenses, making various promises to these individuals.

Let me read something into the record.

Organizers asked officers to wear their RCMP red serge uniforms. They were invited to film a show called “Life After Service” or “After the Call”. They were told that there would be a ceremony to honour their service at a Vancouver CBC studio. All this was a lie to simply lure in these individuals, then shame and embarrass them. Officers had their phones taken away. They were placed in front of a fake audience. A fake video of King Charles was played, “claiming that Canada was dissolving the RCMP in order to account for all the wrongs the force had committed against First Nations people”—again, a blatant lie. Following this, “A First Nation chief then came on stage and spoke to how...the RCMP were responsible for the plight of Indigenous people.” A person even pretended to be Prince William and gave a speech. Retired officers were then followed offstage with cameras in their faces, and there was a refusal to turn those cameras off. It was incredibly humiliating. It's a great example of breaking trust.

This is the problem we see with the CBC, over and over again. We see that trust for this institution is diminishing, and it's because of things like this—among others, of course. It's not only about the breaking of trust but also about the fact that $1.6 billion is given to the CBC on an annual basis to produce content that Canadians should be able to trust and, in some cases on the entertainment side, enjoy. Trust must never be sacrificed. In this case, it was. These individuals were brought in under a lie, put on a stage and humiliated. They were ridiculed. These are RCMP veterans who have served this country faithfully and who had taken an oath to serve and protect the Canadian public.

Given that the CBC is under the auspices of this committee, it is incumbent upon us as members of Parliament to hold it to account. Why would it think it appropriate to take taxpayers' money and use it in this way? Why would it think it appropriate to lie to individuals in order to lure them onto a stage, so it could then ridicule them, humiliate them and berate them in order to produce a show that it felt had entertainment value?

It is a very sad day if that represents the best of media in Canada. It's a very sad day if we have an organization, a corporation and an entity that claims that this is a wise use of public dollars.

I would hope that my colleagues around this table would agree with me that this type of conduct should never transpire. Furthermore, taxpayers should never be put on the hook for such conduct, so I would ask that this situation be further investigated. We should take the opportunity to learn from the CEOs of the CBC and APTN. We should take the opportunity to hear from the minister with regard to what happened and to discern the best way to move forward.

There are several calls for action. On May 20, the National Police Federation sent a letter to the Minister of Canadian Identity and Culture—the minister, of course, for this committee—asking for a full investigation into the CBC and APTN production. On May 21, the Royal Canadian Legion backed up the National Police Federation's request, asking for the same. On May 22, the National Post reached out to the heritage committee, this committee, asking if we would have an investigation into Northland Tales. This was a piece of correspondence that was shared with all of us and that asked for this investigation.

It would seem to be not only in the interest of those who were lured in and taken advantage of but also in the best interest of the Canadian public, given that public dollars are being used.

I would ask the members of this committee to vote in favour of this motion and to allow the sunshine in, for there to be transparency and accountability with regard to what happened.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you, Mrs. Thomas.

This committee does have notice of this motion, and therefore, I consider it to be in order.

I have Mr. Myles on the speaking list so far.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Thank you very much, and thanks for the motion. I appreciate it.

As I've said before, this is a study that we've been waiting to do. I'm excited that we have witnesses here, but there are a couple of things I just want to clarify.

One is that these are creative decisions made by independent organizations. It's important for us to be careful to make comments on the creative decisions of independent organizations. The CBC as an independent Crown corporation does come here, and we will have the opportunity to ask it some questions about anything we want. Production of this show, from what I understand, has stopped and no show has ever aired. Again, I'm not justifying the actions, but I think that commenting on independent organizations and their creative decisions is a bit of a tricky situation given our position.

My main concern here is the really important study that we are all doing and have agreed upon. We're losing time consistently on motion after motion after motion. I appreciate that there are many issues happening in Canada, but I would also appreciate it if we could focus on the study we have before us. We have witnesses who wish to share with us their time and expertise regarding the importance of cultural spaces in Canada.

I vote to adjourn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Are you moving to adjourn debate?

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

I move to adjourn, yes.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

That is a dilatory motion. The clerk will call the vote.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Debate is adjourned on this topic. Therefore, we will return to our question.

Go ahead, Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I just want to make a brief comment on Mr. Myles's argument, Madam Chair. We will not be debating the motion; I want to discuss the principle and the arguments he raised to adjourn the debate on the motion.

We are in committee. The motion was entirely admissible and was introduced in accordance with the rules. Any member present at the table has the right to introduce motions and debate them. If we systematically propose to adjourn debate on motions because we consider them off-topic or believe they delay testimony, and if this becomes a persistent habit, it will constitute a breach of parliamentary privilege. I believe this must be taken very seriously by our colleagues if we wish to maintain the spirit of co-operation we have come to expect in the committee this session.

I am not defending the motion—my general position on this is well known—but if we are going to argue why we should adjourn debate on a motion, we need to come up with better arguments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you.

Mr. Myles, you have the floor for five minutes.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

I had given several reasons, but I thank my colleague for his comments.

I would now like to address Mr. Curzi.

I am most interested in the facilities for emerging artists. Sometimes we forget how important it is for artists to have spaces that are truly accessible—places where they can hone their skills, practise their art, create works and so on.

I sometimes wonder if the definition of cultural spaces—especially when it comes to securing funding from Canadian Heritage or other departments—is too narrow. Is it broad enough to include all the cultural spaces we have in Canada that are important to artists?

[Alexandre Curzi]

That's a really good question.

I'm not really an expert on all cultural spaces in Canada, but I can tell you about the reality faced by members of the Union des artistes. I can also tell you about emerging artists and the difficulty musicians and performers face in finding creative spaces.

At the Union des artistes, we have a space for our members. Our members can use it for free to create. It's in high demand. Right now, in Montreal and elsewhere in Quebec, there is a severe shortage of creative spaces, particularly due to high rents. There is a gap in funding for creating collaborative spaces.

I'll conclude by telling you that the Union des artistes is currently working on a collective housing project for artists that also includes creative spaces. I'd like to remind you that we are a union. This is therefore far from our primary mission. We are a union trying to find solutions to create creative spaces for our artists.

To return to your question, I think there is a glaring lack of funding for the creative spaces that artists need.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Do you have access to funds to pay for these improvised spaces?

[Alexandre Curzi]

No.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Okay.

[Alexandre Curzi]

I could go deeper into the funding issue, but I am not an expert in this field. We are operating in a world of artists with our members, and most artists do not have access to funds for creative spaces.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Right.

We often think of theatres, which are extremely important, of course, but there are other cultural spaces, like bars, basements or any other space, which are essential for allowing artists to master their craft.

[Alexandre Curzi]

Yes.

I was a musician in a past life, when I was very young. I travelled across Canada and Quebec, playing in small venues. What I'm hearing now is that touring infrastructure is practically nonexistent or very hard to come by. It fell apart a long time ago due to a lack of funding. There's also a shortage of venues in good condition. Over the past 20 years, there's been a fairly significant deterioration of creation and performance spaces.

Right now, your committee is dealing with a serious issue, and it's going to quickly escalate. We're spending money trying to save these spaces, and many of them are closing as well.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

I would like to think this is one of the reasons we are conducting this study.

[Alexandre Curzi]

Exactly.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

We can also briefly touch on the importance of networks, which we've already discussed a little. Given the cost of touring, it's good for artists to have networks and the opportunity to perform multiple shows on a single tour, rather than making a six-hour round trip just to perform in one city.

I imagine it's really important to have networks in Canada, isn't it?

[Alexandre Curzi]

Yes, that's really important. I think our friends at Scènes de musique alternatives du Québec have told you a little about it. They're doing a lot of work on this kind of network.

In the world we're heading toward, live arts performances, local shows and small tours will become an essential norm—if only for reasons related to climate issues. So I think these investments should make sense for the government.

[David Myles, Liberal, Fredericton—Oromocto, NB]

Thank you very much.