Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 20th, 2025

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

Mr. Waugh, our accounts are public. There's lots of transparency around how CBC receives and manages public funds, and our commercial revenue as well—more transparency than most.

Specifically, on Gem, I would just like to point out that there's the platform in terms of technology, and then there's the content. The content is multi-use. It finds its way on various platforms, to use that term. It can be on linear TV. It can be on Gem. It can be on third party platforms. It's difficult to circumscribe what you're asking because—

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon South, SK]

Could you do your best for the committee? Bring some numbers in the next couple of weeks while we're asking certain—

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

The number I can speak to eventually, because I don't have that right now, is how much we've invested in technology. In terms of content, that would be impossible to determine, because of the multi-use content.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon South, SK]

Then just give us the number that you've invested into Gem. That would really help, I think. It would help because it's one of your growing platforms, as you mentioned. Radio and TV are dying.

Could you bring those numbers forward?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I wouldn't say that radio is dying. In fact, we are still very successful with radio.

Let me see what I can bring forward.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon South, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

Thank you, Mr. Waugh.

Mr. Al Soud, you have five minutes.

[Fares Al Soud, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's great to see you, and it's great to be back in committee.

Madame Bouchard, I would like to thank you as well for taking the time to be with us. I would also like to congratulate you. I know that it was only in January that you started your mandate, but it was announced in October a year ago. Congratulations on that.

Last week, like many of my colleagues, I had the privilege of spending much more time than usual in my riding. This also meant that I could attend things that I might otherwise have missed. On Thursday, for instance, I attended a parliamentary workshop with some brilliant students. Of course, I'm biased. I'm a UTM graduate. We talked about a lot of different things—parliamentary procedure, being young in the world of politics, artificial intelligence and energy innovation. The conversation that stuck with me most was on polarization.

Canadians, especially young Canadians, are tired of watching politics take precedence over priorities. In a study by the Public Policy Forum in August 2023, more than 70% of respondents said that Canada was moderately to severely polarized. More than 45% expected it to get worse over the next five years. Some 25% are very or extremely worried that Canada itself is threatened by these political divisions.

I have three questions for you. That's a lot of questions, so if you'd like to take much of the time, that's perfectly okay. If not, I have other questions, I promise.

First, could you briefly speak to this rising trend of political polarization and how it might impact the work done at CBC/Radio-Canada?

Second, what role do you believe media might have played in propagating this trend, but also, what role do you believe media could play in terms of fixing or at least helping fix this trend that we've seen?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

It certainly has transformed the landscape and the expectations of audiences as well. It's evident in many, many ways in the reliability of the information they see. We see also, with the AI tools that are now being deployed—sometimes for the better but a lot of times for the worse—a manipulating of pictures and making believable something that is completely fictitious.

That's a serious concern. That's a concern that we navigate through, even in our reporting, on a daily basis. Our reporters are faced with people who are less likely to consider speaking to reporters, simply because they don't know whether or not they can rely on what they see. That's a global problem for all the media. It's not specific to CBC/Radio-Canada, but we are very much in the field, in these situations, so it does impact us.

What can we do? We have already started, and I think we need to expand on it, to invest in media literacy through tools that are available to everyone. By having specific beats for journalists who explain how certain facts were distorted by certain sources, people develop their own ability to distinguish between fact and fiction and manipulation and disinformation. I think we could, as a media collectively, and with schools and universities, do a lot more in that area. We do in fact have a program where we go into universities and have these discussions as Radio-Canada and CBC with students about how they can arm themselves against the risks of disinformation and manipulation and how to better identify reliable sources and question what they see. I think we need to invest collectively, but CBC/Radio-Canada has potentially a leadership role. We've developed tools. We can share them.

I was speaking earlier about the conversation on comments from users. You see horrible stuff sometimes, to the point where some stories are just closed to comments. It's just not possible to entertain that kind of conversation. It's not a conversation. It's a shouting match. It's insulting. We need to re-establish a space where people can have a reasoned conversation and learn from each other. We are working with partners on developing such a tool. It won't replace the big platforms, but if we can give a taste of having civilized conversations somewhere, maybe it will give people a sense that it can be something else. It can return to something a little bit more helpful—useful to open your mind so you can make up your own mind. I think that's the most tragic thing: If we end up as people not being able to decide for ourselves, because we don't know what's true and what's not, or what we can rely on and what we can't, then that becomes really a threat to democracy.

[Fares Al Soud, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you. That was perfect.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lisa Hepfner]

That was very well said. Thank you.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Bouchard, thank you for joining us today.

I like numbers. CBC/Radio-Canada's total budget for 2024‑25 was around $1.4 billion.

Have you received or will you be receiving the $150 million the government promised?

Is that amount included in your annual budget for this year?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

No. The $1.4 billion is a budgetary allocation. It's not our total budget. It doesn't include our own-source revenues.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

In past years, your organization gave bonuses to senior executives.

Out of the 7,000 employees at CBC/Radio-Canada, how many are considered senior executives?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

If I remember correctly, we have about 1,200 managers, including 200 senior executives. The 1,200 managers and professionals are what we call non-affiliated employees, meaning they are not unionized and they have certain responsibilities. Senior executives represent the smallest group.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

Were the senior executives the only ones to benefit from the bonuses handed out by your predecessors, or did all 1,200 managers receive them?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

All 1,200 managers received the bonuses.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

You decided to put an end to the practice. However, your payroll still went up by $40 million this year.

Why is that?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

It's actually $37 million, not quite $40 million, and it includes the pay increases for all unionized employees, so 80% of our workforce.

The amount you're referring too, which is closer to $37 million, reflects an increase in the total payroll, including the negotiated increases in the collective agreements for our unionized employees.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

Are the collective agreements set for three years?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

It varies, but I think they're all in effect and will probably expire in 2026 or 2027.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

If I understand correctly, the government has yet to give you the amount it promised, but should do so in 2026 or 2027, before the pay increases come into effect.

Is that right?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I don't know. It all depends on what parliamentarians decide when they vote on the budget. I don't have any information on that.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Côte-du-Sud—Rivière-du-Loup—Kataskomiq—Témiscouata, QC]

If that's not the case, then the pay increases would use up a large portion of that money, which means there might not be any new services offered.

Is that correct?

[Marie-Philippe Bouchard]

I don't think we can come to that conclusion, no. The pay increases given this year were already planned.

We're starting a new budget cycle, and we're waiting to see what Parliament's decision will be regarding the budget.