Declaration of Emergency Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I thought, for the purposes of expediting the precious time we have to meet in person, perhaps this could be addressed in writing by the law clerk of each chamber. They could provide this advice to us in writing, as opposed to taking up a precious two-hour session, talking us through what the rules are from their perspective.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I'd agree to that amendment.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Could you repeat the amendment you are proposing, Mr. Virani?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I'm trying to think how I would amend it.

One moment, please.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Arif, I can suggest that where it says that representatives “brief the committee”, it changes to “provide a brief to the committee”. On the second-last line, Rhéal, it would say, “representatives of both Houses' procedural services to provide a written brief to the committee as soon as possible concerning the rights of committees”, etc.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Does everyone agree to the amended motion?

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Moving on to Motion 5, it reads as follows:

That the Committee publish on its website the documents which were produced in response to its order of May 31, 2022, and circulated to Committee members in July 2022.

Senator Boniface, would you like to say something?

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Perhaps for clarity we indicate it was circulated to members in July 2022. I believe we had further information that came, so I suggest you don't want to limit yourself. You make it “according to the order of May 31, 2022”, period.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

In that case, I suggest we drop the last part. The motion would therefore end with “ [...] in response to its order of May 31, 2022.”

Is that what you were thinking, Senator Boniface?

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Yes. I think we're limiting ourselves.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

You are right.

Does everyone agree to the amended motion?

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I would agree with that.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

And now for Motion 6:

That the Committee finds the responses of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Department of Justice to its May 31, 2022, order to be unacceptable and is of the opinion that a potential contempt has occurred as a result and, therefore, (a) directs the Joint Clerks and analysts to prepare a succinct interim report setting out the material facts of the situation; and (b) instructs the Joint Chairs to present this report to both Houses as soon as it has been prepared.

Mr. Virani, you have the floor.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Not everyone is in agreement on that.

I think that this is, first of all, extremely premature. We haven't finished with the RCMP witnesses yet, so it's presuming a great deal. Also, it's finding a fairly significant conclusion, which I would oppose, namely, that the finding of potential contempt has occurred. So I would not be minded to support this motion.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Senator White, you have the floor.

[Vernon White]

I can't agree with this either.

My perspective would be, if I felt the questions of the RCMP weren't appropriate, I'd call them back and try this one more time. There were many witnesses whose responses I haven't been ecstatic about. We might be here all night holding people in contempt, so I'd rather call witnesses back than get into this type of dialogue at this point.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Senator White.

Mr. Green, you have the floor.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Mr. Chair, having done a bit of preliminary research and having made some inquiries on this, it might be useful and for the benefit of this committee if, through you to the clerk, there was a response on what the process might look like from the committee's perspective. That way, we'll be adequately able to deal with a process, if we consider it to be contempt, that follows our procedural bylaws.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Is...

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

The question is through you to the clerk. Could the clerk perhaps respond on what the process would be?

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Could you please repeat that, Mr. Green?

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Sorry, Mr. Chair, the question that I put to you is through you to the clerk, to ask the clerk to just provide the committee with a brief overview of what the procedural process would be to initiate a finding of obstruction or contempt.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Okay. That seems to be another motion, though.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

It's not a motion that we're talking about.