Evidence of meeting #14 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was officers.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
That's correct.
You would have also witnessed people who were on active duty with the fist bumps and some of the exchanges that were happening. There was the authorization or at least a lack of enforcement on bringing incendiary devices into the precinct.
When you reference design threat and you talk about canteens of diesel or gasoline or God knows what else—fertilizer and who knows what else—entering into the precinct, how does that happen? Whose decision is it to allow that to happen?
8:15 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
Again, I'm looking for the question, but I just want to be clear. “Design threat” is not a term I'm familiar with. You've used it twice, and I just want to be clear about that.
If you're asking about expressions of sympathy, I can tell you, again, that the ability for an officer to de-escalate a situation by a smile, a selfie or a fist bump.... If that achieves a public safety outcome in the moment that the officer feels is reasonable given all the concerns, I've seen that applied over my 35 years in policing in a wide variety of circumstances, so—
8:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
I'll be clear with you. I haven't seen it applied in many of the counterprotests I've been involved in, but I digress.
When we talk about threat assessment and when I talk about “design threat”, it's the fact that you have Wellington Street as an alleyway, with buildings on one side, a crane set up in the middle of the street with a wrecking ball on it, and people coming in with incendiary devices on the steps of the PMO and Parliament. That's what I'm talking about in terms of “design threat”. It's the environment and the use of cars...and you referenced non-traditional illegal weapons, but cars and other things. Would you have accounted for the other things, including fuel, gasoline, diesel, fertilizer and other things?
8:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Okay. Thank you. That's what I was getting at with that.
In your assessment of the threat, where would you have placed it? Was it at its highest during the time that you were in care and control of the command?
8:15 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
The threat.... Again, there were literally thousands of threats within the theatre that we were dealing with.
8:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
How would you assess the overall threat to the nation's capital? Would it be a high level of threat? That is, to meet the threshold of the Emergencies Act, it has to meet the threat to national security under the CSIS act. There are very prescriptive legal definitions of what it would mean, and part of our work is trying to figure out whether it met the threshold. In your opinion, did it meet that threshold under the CSIS act?
8:15 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
The entire situation that I saw unfolding across this city and across this country was, in my opinion, a national security crisis.
8:15 p.m.
NDP
8:15 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
I don't know the definition of it, and I'm not a lawyer, but I'm telling you as a police professional that the entire circumstances that I saw operating across this country was a national security crisis.
8:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Here's my last question. You've been involved in the G20 and many other massive operations in which a lot of officers were going in. Are you familiar with “aid to civil power”?
8:15 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
Yes, I am, sir.
8:15 p.m.
NDP
8:15 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
Every single option was on the table. I think I'm publicly quoted as saying that on a number of occasions.
8:15 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Yes, that's a thing to say publicly, but was the aid to civil power something you advised that we implement, or was it something you put on the table and then took away?
8:15 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
I have no power to put anything on the table—
8:15 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
No, lawfully I can't request it, but—
8:15 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
I'm sorry, sir. I'm trying to answer your question.
I did not ask anyone specifically to consider aid to civil power, but in all the discussions that took place in those weeks, that was a question that was part of a live and ongoing discussion. However, I would have no authority as a chief of police in a municipal agency to make that request or to make that determination.
8:20 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Mr. Green, your time is up.
Mr. Green, I'm wondering if you could take over.
8:20 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Thank you very much.
Thank you again, Mr. Sloly, for being here. I'll just follow up on Mr. Green's question on aid to civil power.
Where would that authority come from, and who can make that request? Do you know?
8:20 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
I don't know the legislative framework around what would happen. I just know it's not within the legislative framework of a chief of police.
8:20 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Thank you for that.
I want to talk a bit about the relationship between you, in your capacity as the chief, and the province, because you mentioned that the provincial emergency order and the city order were helpful.
In your discussions about getting additional people, I assume you would speak to the commissioner of the OPP. With respect to the provincial government itself, was there any opportunity for you to get any other types of assistance? I don't know the terminology being used today, but I'm thinking of Emergency Management Ontario, which, as you know, used to be part of the Solicitor General's office there.
Can you just elaborate on any involvement of the province in terms of your discussions on this incident during your time as chief?