Evidence of meeting #14 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was officers.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:40 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Were there any shortcomings in what you requested?
6:40 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
I wish I could have gotten it all within hours, but there were huge logistical challenges in gathering officers from across a country that was actually experiencing a national security crisis in various locations. I believe our policing partners, particularly the OPP and RCMP, did their very best.
6:40 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
With your knowledge and experience, Mr. Sloly, had you been provided with the resources that you requested in a timely way and when requested, would you have been able to clear the protesters in downtown Ottawa using the usual, normal and existing legal authorities and without the use of the Emergencies Act?
6:40 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
The plan that was in place on February 9 was designed without the declarations of the provincial or federal emergencies acts. That said, components within both of those declarations were incredibly helpful in accelerating and safely ending the events.
6:45 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Mr. Motz, I'm sorry. Your five minutes are up. Maybe you can follow up.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Before my time begins, I noticed earlier and again now, that Senator Campbell has his hand up. I just want to make sure he can follow the proceedings.
Welcome to the committee, Senator.
6:45 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
You will automatically be on the list, Senator Campbell. I'll call you when the time comes.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Sloly. I join my colleague in thanking you for your service to our country.
I had a particular personal experience during the convoy. As I mentioned in a previous meeting, I walked to Parliament every day during the illegal blockade. On several occasions I was able to speak with police officers on the ground in plain clothes. I was just asking questions as a resident of Ottawa—temporarily, when I'm on the Hill. When I asked them why they weren't ticketing trucks that were blocking roads or enforcing, for example, the highway safety code, I was told again and again by officers that they had orders from higher up not to enforce the law and not to intervene.
I wonder, sir, if you gave those orders or if you know who did.
6:45 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
I appreciate the conversations you had. Obviously, I wasn't there to verify them, but I'll take your explanation at face value.
There were clearly orders sent through for us to enforce the laws that we could. There was also a very clear understanding, which is borne out in multiple intelligence reports from multiple levels of security operations, including ITAC reports, that enforcement activity in any theatre across the country could have escalating impacts. In fact, I quoted earlier from that in my presentation.
The reality on the ground was that officers had maximum discretion about whether and how they would engage in enforcement activities, whether it was bylaw enforcement or enforcing provincial statutes or the Criminal Code.
We made enforcement efforts on every single day, and statutes were enforced at all three levels, but the officers had the discretion—if they felt it wasn't safe, if they didn't have a proper resource or if it could escalate the situation—to make that decision. That's fundamental to democratic policing in any state of affairs, whether an emergency or not.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
The OPS provided a press release on January 30 that stated, “Police have avoided ticketing and towing...so as not to instigate confrontations with demonstrators. Still, confrontations and the need for de-escalation has regularly been required.” That comes from the OPS, sir.
On January 27, you referred to situation reports. The RCMP situation report—on page 3 of 281 of the document disclosure—indicates that they were expecting a range from 1,500 to 2,500 trucks. Laws were being broken by the drivers of these vehicles, but if I understand correctly from your testimony, due to safety concerns, they were not always being enforced—among others, the highway safety code.
You have also been quoted in the media saying that you were trying to avoid bloodshed. Were you afraid or did you have concerns that made it such that officers were reluctant to enforce the highway safety code because of concern surrounding what the demonstrator may do?
6:45 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
Thank you.
I will repeat again that there was enforcement at all three levels every single day throughout my tenure in office. There were never any instructions to not enforce laws. There were careful threat assessments that were provided through briefings to the officers to make sure they had maximum discretion to make very important decisions on a day-by-day, interaction-by-interaction basis.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
The OPS officers did seek to enforce the law, at least on one occasion, and make an arrest, but apparently were unable to do so because they were surrounded by aggressive protesters.
Do you recall that incident?
6:45 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
There were many such incidents like that.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
I guess with the short amount of time I have remaining, sir, I would ask this in a general sense. When members of Parliament, including the new leader of the official opposition, Pierre Poilievre, were out on the streets on February 4, handing out donuts right in the middle of what you were experiencing as a very difficult and intense situation, how did that impact the morale of your officers?
6:50 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
There were incredible ranges of actions by individuals across civil society that were problematic for what we were trying to accomplish, but there were far greater amounts of effort to safely and ultimately successfully resolve this national security crisis.
6:50 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Do you believe that were it not for the intervention of the federal government you would have been able to resolve the situation?
6:50 p.m.
Chief of Police (Retired), Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual
I was no longer in office when the situation was ultimately resolved. The plan we put in place on my last day in office considered whether or not we'd be able to have the resources to apply to private injunctions and the various declarations. Ultimately, the elements of the three levels of declaration of emergency were very much assisting with a faster and safer resolution of the circumstances here and across the country.