Declaration of Emergency Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2022

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

The report also says there were incidents of weapons being amassed. In the same report, on page 20, it says that “CIG received information that an individual...may be supplying weapons to protestors. CIG is continuing to investigate.” CIG is what, Mr. Carrique?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Without seeing the report, I can't say what CIG is, sorry.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

You're not familiar with that acronym.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

No.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I'm on page 27 of this report, and there's a threat where an individual said, “If any violence is perpetrated against those protesters by the government or local police, it's a call to arms for all [of] us freedom fighters to come together and go where we're needed. Drop everything and offer your support”.

Do you recollect seeing that kind of material in these types of reports?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I do recollect seeing those types of statements stated in the Hendon reports, yes.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

There's another one that I want to take you to. I'm on page 21 of the report, and it says, “Background [of this posting] appears to be OPS Instagram page”—that's the Ottawa Police Service—“with a blue bubble with the following text: Just remember, we have more people, more guns, better armor and we are your owners. You will be hanging alongside Trudeau and the many others that have shown their treasonous hand. 'We aren't scared of you. You need us, we do not need you'.”

Even just hearing that, let alone reading this in a situational report, how would that make you respond in terms of your work in law enforcement on behalf of the OPP when rhetoric like this is being posted by the blockaders?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

It's an obvious concern for us. It would require further analysis through intelligence and potentially further investigation, and certainly the dissemination of that information to the police service of jurisdiction. All of the things you cited were a concern to law enforcement, and in particular to the OPP.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

We have some information that's been submitted to the commission. We have information that 533 charges were laid, including a large number of weapons charges by the OPS. Are you familiar with that?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I am familiar with statistics that have been cited. I can't say whether that is accurate or not.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

We've also heard evidence from some of the witnesses who went before the commission of inquiry and said that basically this was just a peaceful, almost fun-type protest. How do you react to that, in light of what I just read to you and the charges that were laid?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Over and above what you have read to me and the citing of charges that have been laid, it was not a peaceful protest. It was an unlawful demonstration. It turned into an occupation, and it was a significant challenge for law enforcement.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I'm not sure whether you listened to the previous testimony, but I took Interim Chief Bell to some of the instances where people used the rhetoric of “overthrow of government”, “dissolution of government”, “ending Trudeau's reign of power”, etc. Are you aware of those kinds of sentiments also being uttered by people who were participating in the blockade?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I am aware of those types of sentiments being reported in the Hendon reports, yes.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I wanted to take you to something important that relates to Diagolon, an ideologically motivated extremist violence group. We know that the Diagolon symbol was found along with an arms cache at Coutts, Alberta.

We also have evidence in this document, on page 6, that says Diagolon is “an ideological group which advances accelerationists rhetoric towards government collapse. DIAGOLON appears to have an audience within the Convoy with some members having traveled from BC to Ottawa.”

Can you comment on the presence of Diagolon in the Ottawa blockade?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I would not be in a position to provide you with specific evidence in relation to their presence within the Ottawa blockade. All of the information I would have access to is what's contained in the Hendon report. That further evidence would have to come from Superintendent Pat Morris or an actual intelligence operator.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Thank you, Mr. Virani.

Now we'll move to Madame Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here, Commissioner Carrique.

I would like you to give us some details about what happened when you learned about the Emergencies Act order. As I understand it, you had a discussion with Commissioner Lucki around February 5. That's when she mentioned to you that this measure might be used.

At what point in time did you know that this would be used in the form of an order in council by the government?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Thank you.

I did not know ahead of time that the Emergencies Act was going to be invoked. It was only after it was invoked and that information was made public that I became aware of it. That caused our team to have to revisit the operational plan that they had in place and consider the new tools that were afforded to them in the Emergencies Act.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

In that case, I would like you to tell us about the plans you already had in mind that were possibly going to be implemented.

Can you give us a little more detail on the time required to put the plan in place?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

The plan was ready to go on February 13. There were still some obstacles that we had to overcome before that plan could be operationalized, but it was ready to be operationalized on February 15. The planning team had to revisit the plan and ensure that the tools that were now available to them were considered and that they would be utilized where and when appropriate.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

You just mentioned that there were still a few hurdles to clear for the plan to work. Was the use of the Emergencies Act necessary to ensure that these hurdles were overcome? Were you considering other options?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

The Emergencies Act wasn't specifically required for us to operationalize the plan from that period between February 13 and February 15.

What the Emergencies Act did do, how it did assist police, I believe.... There was a constant struggle with providing towing services. We did have a number of tow trucks identified that were willing to assist. There were up to 35 tow trucks, I believe, through seven to nine different companies, but those tow operators were seeking indemnification. We were in the process of an emergency procurement process through the province to provide that level of indemnification. The Emergencies Act enabled us to be able to escalate that indemnification and provide that to the tow truck operators.

Although not part of the operational plan, the Emergencies Act also provided the opportunity for police to cut off access to funding sources, which made the occupation less sustainable, and certainly we were able to leverage the messaging around restricted zones and restricting children into those zones. Although there were common-law and other legal authorities to restrict attendance, it enabled police to strengthen that messaging with the Emergencies Act.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

I'll come back to the issue of tow trucks, since you mentioned it.

If I understood correctly, the problem was only financial, and if there was difficulty in using tow trucks, it was not because the owners, for example, did not want to do the work. It was only the financial aspect.