Evidence of meeting #17 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was emergencies.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:50 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Thank you, Madame Normandin. Your time is up.
We will now go to Mr. Green.
You have five minutes.
November 3rd, 2022 / 6:50 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Thank you.
Mr. Bell, I'm going to put some questions to you in a rather rapid way. I would ask that you try to provide answers in a succinct manner to the best of your ability.
I want to begin with testimony from the former Chief Sloly, who stated that based on his intelligence in the early stages of the procession towards the convoy and the ultimate occupation, they estimated that it would be for only a couple of days. It would be about a weekend.
Was that assessment based on information you would have provided to him, given your responsibilities for gathering intelligence?
6:55 p.m.
Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
That was information that was widely known through our entire executive and from assessments that had been made by our intelligence groups going through the intelligence reports that existed. It was our assessment that it was predominantly going to be a shorter period of time, predominantly a weekend.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Ultimately, sir, you would have signed off on the final assessments as the senior executive responsible for intelligence. Is that correct, yes or no?
6:55 p.m.
Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
I didn't sign off on any assessments. The information...and great credit to the Ontario Provincial Police. They did the prep—
6:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
That suffices, sir. I'm going to move on to the next question.
In the January 29 intelligence assessment prepared by Sergeant Chris Kiez, there is pretty significant editorialization—in fact, plagiarization of Rex Murphy. I want to give you the opportunity to respond to this. It's quite stark. I want you to tell us, in your opinion, to what extent this intelligence assessment was relied upon in the decision to allow trucks onto Wellington Street.
Did you feel that you actually had the real expertise and resources to accurately and professionally assess the public safety risk?
6:55 p.m.
Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
The intelligence assessment that you're referring to was actually first issued on the 28th. What I can tell you is that it was an overall threat assessment. It was an overarching document. Beyond that, there was continual information sharing, intelligence sharing between our intelligence unit—
6:55 p.m.
Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
—and our planning team that actually helped—
6:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
But on that particular document, sir, respectfully, the last paragraph of page four reads like a convoy manifesto.
It talks about the struggling of the middle class. It talks about people rising up who otherwise wouldn't be protesting. It seems to be almost a stark warning about things to come. Here's my question for you. Given the sensitive nature of intelligence, would you not agree that you would have to have unbiased information that is based on actual fact, and not the editorialization of people like Rex Murphy, in order to make adequate threat assessments?
Would you not agree with that basic statement?
6:55 p.m.
Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
It was one of the pieces that helped contribute to the ultimate threat assessment that went into the operational plan. It wasn't the only document that was leveraged.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Okay, so moving on within that assessment, there is reference to persons of interest who “in some cases had access to firearms”—I'm referring to page 9 now—and some persons of interest had “made comments on open source that they intend[ed] to bring their firearms”, etc.
In at least two cases, persons of interest outside of Ottawa, and often outside of Ontario, had been met by police who seized firearms in the interest of public safety when comments about firearms had been made on open-source media.
Could you verify the extent of your intelligence that there had in fact been confiscation of firearms for the intended purpose of continuing on through the convoy to the occupation?
6:55 p.m.
Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
I can't confirm that because that would have been done as an intelligence update that would feed into this document by other jurisdictions.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Can you confirm that it was in your report and you would have read that as a threat assessment?
6:55 p.m.
Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
Absolutely, the threat of firearms and the threat of violence was—
6:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Can you confirm, sir, that you had intelligence that people had been stopped along the way and had their weapons seized?
6:55 p.m.
Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
As you indicated, it is in the intelligence and threat assessment.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
This is my last question. The interview summary for Superintendent Pat Morris of the Ontario Provincial Police said that the OPP's provincial operations intelligence bureau, in the Hendon report, dated February 9, identified that they had become “concerned about instances where information about police action became available to protestors.” Recently, organizers actually indicated that they had leaks.
At what time did you become aware that there were leaks between the Ottawa police and convoy organizers?
6:55 p.m.
Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
What I can tell you is that right from the outset of any information we received during the occupation and beyond, we initiated investigations. The information that was presented yesterday at the Emergencies Act inquiry was net new information to us that we had not yet investigated. We've already, as of last night, initiated an internal investigation, and we will be reaching out to Mr. Wilson to get more information so that we can follow up on that. We've been really clear through—
6:55 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Mr. Bell, the time is up. I apologize.
Mr. Green, can you take the chair?
7 p.m.
NDP
7 p.m.
The Joint Chair Hon. Gwen Boniface
Thank you very much, both of you, for attending.
Chief Bell, I'll address the questions to you.
You refer to a plan involving all three agencies that was in place as the Emergencies Act came into effect. Can you tell me when that plan was actually finalized, and how that sits in relation to the actions and the act coming into effect?
7 p.m.
Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
I am going to turn that one over to Deputy Chief Ferguson.
7 p.m.
D/Chief Patricia Ferguson
Thank you and good evening, Madam Chair.
I can tell you that the plan was developed and expanded upon once we had the integrated team set up. I think it's fair to say that, on or around February 15, the plan was ready to move forward.