Declaration of Emergency Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2022

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Yes, so it became somewhat complicated between using the Emergencies Act to compel tow operators and the indemnification. We had approximately 35 tow operators ready to go, but some of them were still expressing concerns about retaliation, their identity becoming known, damage that may occur to their properties or their vehicles or to them personally—any harm that may come to them in the future for their assistance—but they still had committed to assisting, so being able to provide that indemnification was very useful.

The other aspect was that, although they had agreed to assist, there was some concern as we got closer to going operational that they could change their minds and not be willing to assist, so the ability to compel them would have also been of great advantage in that situation. We did provide the written documentation, and we did provide the verbal notice, as required under the Emergencies Act. However, they weren't resisting at that time, but had they changed their minds, we saw that as a significant advantage.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

I will continue in the next round of questions.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Thank you.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Green, you have five minutes.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you very much.

I want to take this opportunity to go to Commissioner Carrique to clear the air on what seems to be a bit of a contradiction.

During the March 24 SECU meeting, you shared that the provincial operations intelligence bureau had identified the “freedom convoy” as a threat to national security. However, on October 19, OPP Superintendent Pat Morris told the commission that his team had never received credible information that the “freedom convoy” constituted a direct threat to national security.

Do you agree with the assessment of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security that these statements are contradictory?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

No, I do not agree that they're contradictory, and I think I went to a great extent to explain where there could be a perception of contradiction before the commission. On February 7—

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

I'll take that as your answer. I'm happy to give you the opportunity just to put it on the record here today.

In your opinion, did the “freedom convoy” constitute a threat to national security?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I believe the “freedom convoy” did present a threat to national security, and it is very important.... This is talking from a strategic intelligence standpoint, not evidentiary as required under the CSIS Act or through terrorist charges under the Criminal Code, but from a strategic intelligence standpoint, which leads to decision-making and action planning.

Absolutely, I felt it was a threat.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

The integrated terrorism assessment centre's national threat level was at “medium”, and this is the definition: “Intelligence indicates that an individual or group within Canada...has the intent and capability to commit an act of terrorism in Canada. ITAC assesses that a violent act of terrorism could occur.”

Would that inform your intelligence and decision-making, operationally speaking?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Operationally speaking, that would inform decision-making, and there was consultation between what we call POIB, the provincial operations intelligence bureau, INSET, the integrated national security enforcement team of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and CSIS to further analyze what our section reported as a possible threat to national security.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Your Hendon report dated February 9, 2022 “refers to threats to public safety, officer safety, and potentially to national security”. Superintendent Morris “noted that at certain times, the environment was jovial and congenial. However, when police action occurred...the dynamic changed to be more aggressive. Around this time, POIB also became concerned about instances where information about police action became available to protestors.”

Did you share the concerns of Superintendent Morris, given that information?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Did I share the same concerns?

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

That's correct: that police action information became available to protesters.

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

Yes, I shared those same concerns.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

There was perhaps “evidence of accidental or intentional leakage of information” and you wanted to “batten down the hatches”, in his words. Do you agree that this was a threat that you needed to solve, from your intelligence and operational perspectives?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

It was certainly a risk that needed to be addressed and mitigated.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Given the recent testimony of organizers that they had multiple leaks from every level, what evidence....? You said “accidental or intentional”. What information would have led you to believe that there was an intentional leakage of information to the convoy protesters that would make you want to batten down the hatches?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I have no evidence to say that there was leakage that took place during this time period. I agree with the sentiments and the statements that were made in the Hendon report at the time. There were a number of follow-up taskings that were issued out to try to determine whether the threats had actually been realized in terms of specific information leaked.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Were you ever briefed on the potential for perhaps sympathies within the Ottawa police senior management, as has been reported broadly, that may have been a threat to the intelligence that had been shared? More clearly, I should say, were you comfortable sharing all of the information you had with the members of the Ottawa police?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

I had no concerns with sharing all of the intelligence we had with the Ottawa police or any of our other policing partners.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Was there ever any information provided to you that some of the members may have been sympathetic to the causes and may have been involved in some of the leakages of information?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

There was ongoing concern that there may be police personnel. There were police personnel who were sympathetic to the causes and there was a risk of information leaving the confines of police services.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Would that include the OPP as well?

[Commr Thomas Carrique]

That would include every police service.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

What are you doing, then, to investigate the potential for leaked information throughout the course of the convoy? Is this part of the post-mortem that you're engaged in?