Declaration of Emergency Committee on Nov. 24th, 2022

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

When you were in those discussions, with specificity, was there ever any conversation around the Ministry of Transportation perhaps targeting either the suspension of licences or insurance to perhaps motivate licensed and regulated truckers to cease and desist in these illegal activities? Did they consult with you around those conversations? Is it something that perhaps you brought up in any of your conversations?

[Stephen Laskowski]

The issue of how to move people away from borders was focused primarily on the federal government, as the trucks, or the vehicles per se, were at the federal government level. Our conversations with regard to dealing with how to remove vehicles from the roads or protesters from the roads involved multiple agencies, including the MTO.

For example, at the Peace Bridge, we had public people on public highways running up and down the roads—

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

I'll ask you with a greater specificity: Is it your opinion that if, at any of those levels of government, the Ministry of Transportation had perhaps stated that if people do not move, either their insurance or their licence may be revoked....

The reason we're putting these questions to you, sir, is that it's our duty. It's our mandate as a committee—you may or may not know our mandate—to see if the threshold was met, to see if we exhausted all other possibilities. We're turning to subject matter experts like you to try to figure out if those consultations happened. Is it your opinion that if that possible avenue had been used, we might have averted it?

[Stephen Laskowski]

The Canadian Trucking Alliance didn't bring those things forward to any level of government.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

In the briefest way possible, in your estimation, what was the cost to your alliance members, the 95% who continued to want to work and continued to move goods and services? What was the material economic cost of the impact and the disruption from the convoy?

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Please answer quickly, Mr. Laskowski. The member's time is up.

[Stephen Laskowski]

Do you want me to answer that question?

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Yes, I asked you to answer quickly.

[Stephen Laskowski]

I mentioned in the earlier comments that it was general economic loss. You're probably looking at $100 an hour, if not more, for running a tractor-trailer. Just think about all those trucks sitting in those queues, missing loads and just sitting there. The economic loss on our industry was significant. There isn't an exact number.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Mr. Laskowski.

We now go to Senator Boniface for five minutes.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Thank you very much.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

For the Canadian Trucking Alliance, let me first say thank you to all those truckers out there who kept things going through the pandemic under tough circumstances. We're deeply grateful to them. They kept our food chain and everything else going.

The emergency measures regulation included “truck depots” in the definition of “critical infrastructure”, meaning that it was forbidden to interfere with the functioning of truck depots during the time when that regulation was in effect.

Can you tell me the extent to which truck depots were subjected to interference during the protests and the blockades? Do you have any information on that?

[Stephen Laskowski]

I'm sorry. What's your definition of a truck depot? Do you mean a rest area, Miss...?

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

I'm using the definition found within the regulations, so I was actually hoping you would help me understand “truck depot”.

[Stephen Laskowski]

Do you know what the definition of a truck depot is here, Geoff?

[Geoffrey Wood]

I do not, Stephen. I have my own definition, but I do not know the one we're speaking about.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

I would welcome the definition.

[Stephen Laskowski]

If you could repeat the question, I might be able to answer it, but I just want to make sure that what I'm answering is actually the correct reference.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

In the regulation that came as a result of the act being put into place, truck depots were included in critical infrastructure. I was trying to get a sense of definition on what you would say, what you would think, was intended.

[Stephen Laskowski]

I'm purely guessing here. It's either a truck rest area or perhaps the truck terminals, but that is.... I am guessing here.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

That was the distinction I was trying to clarify, but that's okay.

I'll go to both organizations. I'll start with the CTA and then I'll come to our guests who are present.

Have you done a review in regard to how it took place, what you may or may not have been able to do differently, or anything you can assist us with in that regard?

[Stephen Laskowski]

Sure. That's where we need our recommendation, and I think you heard it from the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association.

Every crossing is different. The Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association brought up that there are municipalities, provinces and the federal government. There can be different enforcement agencies involved. One of the lessons—and I think it was referred to by the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association—was that you get everybody in the room together to ask, “What are the lessons we learned here? How could we be more proactive to end it quickly and peacefully? Do we want it to end peacefully and end quickly? What is the plan? How could we work better the next time in terms of having a plan? In essence, who does what, and when?"

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Thank you.

I'll ask the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association the same question.

[Brian Kingston]

Yes, we did undertake a review. We provided written advice to the public safety minister after this occurred, with some recommendations to ensure that it doesn't happen again, and they are in line with what I've mentioned here today: identifying a clear lead at these key pieces of infrastructure and ensuring that we have legislative tools to avoid the need for this type of act in the future if there is a disruption at a critical border crossing.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

You would definitely realize from your former roles that the levels of government that would be required to be involved would have an onerous task.

If you look at it from Ontario's perspective, the Ontario government moved with some legislation of their own. Was that helpful to you, and did you have input into that?

[Brian Kingston]

The legislation was helpful. We didn't have direct input into it, in the sense that we weren't providing specific advice on the tools that were necessary. We were communicating with all three levels of government on the economic harm that was occurring and asking for a solution to remove the blockade.