Declaration of Emergency Committee on April 30th, 2024

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

I just want to remind members that we do have the Rouleau commission report in a substantive, extended version in both official languages, in keeping with the Official Languages Act, per the commission's mandate.

At this time, Madam Chair, I would like to move a motion, which is that we proceed with the remaining meetings in camera to pick up where we left off at the draft reporting stage, setting aside an opportunity to revisit any outstanding information that may be presented and that members of this committee may want to take from the primary evidence if they think that it has a material impact on the recommendations that we've had to date. I think that not doing so is irresponsible with our time and our mandate and would risk us being pushed into the new year.

With that, I'm moving the motion formally and am open to discussion.

I don't think we're going to find consensus on this. I think we just have to get to a point where we vote and use the remaining few weeks of our time judiciously to advance the final conclusion of this committee.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

A motion has been moved.

Senator Smith, you're next on our list.

[Larry W. Smith, Senator, Quebec (Saurel), CSG]

Thank you, Chair.

Obviously, I'm very new in this group. A couple of things stand out in my mind—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Yes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I don't mean to disrupt Senator Smith. I apologize.

The motion is on the floor. I'd like to see a text of the motion. Mr. Green elaborated at great length. I don't know if all of that explanation is part of the motion, but it should be in both official languages, of course.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

I have a point of order on the point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Go ahead.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Motions come to committee at hand or orally all the time. It's part of our Standing Orders.

The motion is to proceed in camera in order to go back to our draft report stage, keeping open the ability to revisit its finalization in the fall. That is the motion. It is a duly put motion procedurally. It does not require being distributed in writing. It is also translated in real time, as per the Standing Orders, and it's in translation in official committee business.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Madam Chair, it has been customary in this committee to have motions in writing.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Go ahead on the point of order, Mr. Fortin.

[The Joint Chair (Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin), Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm not sure what point of order we're on.

First of all, I need to understand something. Mr. Green is moving that we go in camera to work on the report. But that is not what we are here for. This evening, I am not prepared to work on any report whatsoever. If the member wants us to go over the report, we may or may not agree with that, but I don't think it would even be possible this evening, in any case.

Second, I don't see why we need to sit in camera this evening. We're working on committee business. Right now, we are dealing with a motion made publicly to request documents. We are in the process of deciding whether or not we have received what we asked for and what the next steps will be. Logic dictates that this discussion should be held publicly, not in camera.

In addition, I think it would be appropriate to report to the House on the status of our work. That said, we can always come back to it later. We may have to explain the situation, because the House is expecting a report from this committee.

Right now, we are waiting for documents that were requested through motions. We're debating whether or not we received everything we asked for. Now we're talking about sitting in camera, with utter disregard for what has been said. That seems pretty quick off the mark to me.

Perhaps I misunderstood Mr. Green's motion. I would not agree with going in camera. I think we can continue to work in public. However, I don't think it would be possible this evening to work on the report in camera, even if we wanted to.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

For clarity, unless I heard wrong, Mr. Green—I'll ask you to correct me—I don't believe you asked to go in camera tonight.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

For the record, Madam Chair, the intention is to give direction for the planning of future meetings. Report writing is done in camera. That is typical. That is what we were doing prior to the translation situation and motion.

My suggestion is that for the remaining time in these last few weeks, we go back to the report-writing stage, keeping open—not finalizing—to members who feel it's important the ability to revisit appropriate evidence as it's translated and have that addressed at the report-writing stage. This gives us a week to revisit where we left off, then have the chairs report back to the committee. I did not refer to us beginning the report-writing stage now. This is for the future direction of the work.

I would put to my colleagues that the other option is for us to simply suspend or, as Mr. Carignan stated, go in a completely different direction that would deal with the minutiae of the documents at hand.

I leave it to every individual member of this committee to deal with the translated documents in whatever way they see fit. I am ready and prepared to go back to report drafting and to begin a phase that allows us to wrap this up before the next calendar year.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Is there anyone else who wants to speak to the motion?

Senator Smith, do you want to speak to the motion itself?

[Larry W. Smith]

I think so.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

I welcome your comments.

[Larry W. Smith]

I just want to bring up a few thoughts.

I've lived in a different world, of course, but we had a lot of report writing when we had disciplinary situations in sport and bankruptcies...and what we were going to do.

There seem to be some key words: momentum, focus and sense of urgency. Is there momentum? What type of focus do we have, and what type of sense of urgency do we have? What is the group interest? Are we working as a group for all Canadians, or are we working for ourselves, strictly, whether we are Conservative or whatever side of the fence we are on? I think we have to recognize, and I'm sure that everybody does, that once we get into summertime, lights go out. You can be the best person in the world, but you're looking for your rest.

What can be done between now and when we break? What type of momentum can we create that would give us some gas in the fall period? Do we have enough support folks around who could do some grunt work that develops some form of continuity so that when we come back in the fall, we're not going to be saying, “Oh my goodness, we've been off all summer”?

I put that on the floor as a rookie. I've been in business for 45 years, and I think I understand it. I've been in leadership positions, but regarding momentum, focus and a sense of urgency, there needs to be some commonality around the room. The game playing is not going to solve anything. Are we working for the interests of Canadians or our own self-interest? That needs to be really thought through.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Mr. Maloney is next, followed by Senator Harder.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I support Mr. Green's motion, and I couldn't agree more with Senator Smith.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Senator Harder, please go ahead.

[Peter Harder]

I can be equally brief.

I thank Mr. Green for his motion. I think the only way to regain some momentum, some focus and some sense of urgency is to continue our work in camera on the report, with the caveat that Mr. Green has introduced. I hope we can call the question.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

Is there any more discussion?

Mr. Green, I'll ask you to repeat the motion.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

I moved:

That the committee return in camera for the remaining weeks to continue the work on the draft report-writing phase, not excluding the ability to revisit, in the fall, any new information as presented in the translated documents for our consideration and finalization of the report.

[The Joint Chair, Hon. Gwen Boniface]

The motion has just been repeated.

Senator Carignan, please go ahead.