Declaration of Emergency Committee on May 3rd, 2022

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

With all due respect to Mr. Virani, a committee can change its instructions at any time. I think we would be foolish as a committee to disregard the evidence we have heard to date and suggest that our shooting in the dark three weeks ago or a month ago, developing what we thought were reasonable silos of witnesses at the time, was the wisest choice. It has become very clear now that it may not have been the wisest choice.

We have an opportunity now to be prudent and efficient along the way. Having witnesses come here, three blocks of them, who may not be able to answer questions as fully as we need.... The RCMP are going to be a day by themselves at least, and then because we have to bring them back two or three times, I'm not satisfied that, if it were only the RCMP and CSIS by themselves in one three-hour sitting, we're going to have enough time to deal with everything, as Mr. Green indicated previously.

We have a work plan; we haven't accepted it. We made a decision to do this three weeks or a month ago; we've got new information. We need to act and be nimble and flexible accordingly, and away we go.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

It seems like we're actually debating something that we might have agreement on anyway. I'll go to Senator White and look to his collective wisdom to get us through this.

[Vernon White]

I wish it were that easy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, though.

The reality is that we ask at the highest level. They will bring an entourage with them who we may or may not have responses. I'm not worried about their not having the operational responses. Commissioner Lucki will bring one or two deputies, and maybe an aide will come with her. I'm sure that between them they will figure out what we're asking and the responses we're looking for.

My perspective is just to get two people at the highest level on the books so that we're not finding ourselves.... I felt a little bit tonight that the witnesses we had here, with the exception of the ADM, were a little lower level officials than I anticipated seeing from these groups. That's all.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you very much.

I appreciate everybody's insight. I want to make sure I'm reading the room right, that we are going to have an agreement to have both the RCMP and CSIS at the next meeting and to ask for the highest level of commissioners and officers available.

Monsieur Fortin.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

I had asked for the floor.

I'd like to comment before we come to a decision on next week.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Yes. My apologies. In skipping Mr. Virani, I thought your intervention had already occurred.

C'est bon. The floor is yours.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

It was simply to collaborate with Mr. Motz.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Here's what I wanted to say, and I'm not happy about it. If we continue in this vein, I don't know when we'll be able to ask the government to produce the documents we want. In all likelihood, we would receive them in the middle of the summer when we're all on holiday. It should have been done today, in my view. I don't see why we couldn't do it right now.

Last week, we decided that we should hear witnesses today and that it was urgent. As it turned out, they couldn't come. We therefore heard other witnesses. Now we're putting off until next week the appearance of those it was urgent to invite last week. We keep putting things off and getting nowhere.

We need to come to a decision on the motions that were suspended. We could toss them out. I'll give my opinion on the motions when we are debating them, but as to whether we are going to reject them or adopt them, I think we should do it now.

We had a problem earlier. Witnesses were telling us that they couldn't answer certain questions or commit to producing documents. If the legal counsel we need to hire had been with us we would have been able to deal quickly with these matters.

Whether to reject or adopt these motions, I think we should do so now.

I suggest that next week, our priority should be to debate the suspended motions and then look at which witnesses we should be hearing and when.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Thank you for that.

We now have Ms. Bendayan.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think we are now debating the proposed amendment. On that subject, I'd like to say that we are in agreement.

Mr. Chair, I think that you could ask my colleagues whether there is consensus.

I understand that there might be concerns and that some of my colleagues would like to have only two witnesses for a period of three hours next week. We would agree to that.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

There was a motion on the floor that kind of floated around. I think we have heard the urgency of dealing with other committee business at the appropriate time. I don't know that this is the appropriate time for that particular debate given the hour. It is fairly late.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chair, at the very least, my motion is on the floor and is still the subject matter of this debate.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Your motion is duly put.

I'm sorry, I just wanted to reference the comments by Mr. Fortin and the issue of our opening up the debate on when we're going to have the committee business.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chair, I could amend my own motion if that would be easier, if the amendment wasn't properly moved.

I am removing justice from my motion.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Let's call the vote.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

What's the motion exactly?

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Order for a moment.

[The Joint Chair, Bloc, Rhéal Fortin]

The motion is about hearing them next week, right?

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Mr. Fortin, order, please. Let's get to the heart of the matter.

Madam Bendayan, could you please repeat your motion.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

I move that the committee invite the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service to appear at the committee's next meeting for a period of three hours.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

We've heard the motion. I do want to reflect on this. I'm not trying to over-complicate things.

Before we move the motion in its entirety, do we need direction that it is the officers of the highest responsibility?

[Vernon White]

My perspective is that it's not part of the motion. That's part of the clerk's direction. That's right.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

Okay, so there is a motion that's on the floor. It is open for debate procedurally. There is no calling the question, so if anybody does have input, now is the time.

Mr. Motz, followed by Mr. Brock.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I agree with the amendment. Thank you, Rachel.

I want to go back to Mr. Fortin's point on the need to deal with committee business. I can agree to next week having three hours for these witnesses as the motion indicates, but we have to set aside at least half of a meeting the following week, please, to deal with committee business. Please, we have to.

[The Joint Chair, NDP, Matthew Green]

I think we have consensus around the table on that informally. That's great. Thank you, committee.

We do have Mr. Brock, if he wants to speak.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Yes, I just need some clarity here.

We talked very early on in the process that if witnesses were going to be relying upon any written documentation or statements that we would try to ensure fairness for committee members by not scrambling at the last minute. We talked about potentially up to 72 hours, so through you, Mr. Chair, as a direction to the clerk, wherever possible if those witnesses will be relying upon written documentation, we should perhaps give them a gentle reminder to get it to us perhaps by the close of business this Friday, as opposed to the day before. That would be much appreciated.