Evidence of meeting #9 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was laws.
A video is available from Parliament.
7:40 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
I'm sorry.
At least you were in good company. We both would have missed the round.
Monsieur Fortin.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Daigle, you said earlier that you were a lawyer and you had meetings on several occasions. Before the emergency measures were proclaimed, were you consulted in connection with the laws and regulations in force that could have been used to put an end to the blockades?
7:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
We were consulted about various situations. For example, we were consulted when the police tried to move a truck, when there were children in it. The police could not use their powers to move the truck, because there was a dangerous situation.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Mr. Daigle, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I know it's rude, but my speaking time is just three minutes and one of them is already up.
Could the Ontario Highway Traffic Act have been used during the protests?
Could all the laws in force have been used to end the blockades? That was done in Windsor and elsewhere, for example.
7:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
Yes, we consulted the Criminal Code. The RCMP and the other police forces also referred to it and tried to enforce it. We also spoke with Ontario to find out the extent to which the Highway Traffic Act could or couldn't be enforced.
7:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
In light of what we saw, it was very difficult to enforce it.
7:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
You would have to ask them, because I wasn't told why they weren't able to do it.
I gave you the example of the truck that was parked where it shouldn't be and when an attempt was made to move it. When the police approached the truck, they saw that there were children inside it. Ultimately, they couldn't move the truck.
7:40 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
In Ontario, are there laws that allow children to be taken into care, to get them out or...
7:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
Yes, but we were surprised by the situation. So a new plan had to be developed.
When the police returned to the location, they were accompanied by children's services representatives.
7:45 p.m.
Bloc
7:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
Up to February 14, it had still not been done.
7:45 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
It had not been done. I understand that, and that is what we saw. I agree with you. However, it would have been possible.
In your opinion, was the proclamation of emergency measures necessary? Would there not have been a way to resolve the situation under the laws in force, the Criminal Code, the Highway Traffic Act, and so on?
7:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
As I said at the outset, the test isn't about whether it is necessary...
7:45 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Yes, that is what the test consists of. Was it necessary?
Section 3 of the Act states that the Act can be used “[if it] cannot be effectively dealt with under any other law of Canada.” In your opinion, it was not possible to put an end to the blockade other than with the emergency measures proclamation. Is that correct?
7:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
It's not that it couldn't be done, it's that it wasn't being done effectively, to use the words in the text of the Act.
7:45 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
In the Act, it doesn't talk about what is effective, but what can be done.
7:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
The word “effectively” is used in the Act.
7:45 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Thank you.
Monsieur Fortin, could I relinquish the chair to you for three minutes?
7:45 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Through you, I'm going to pick up your line of questioning, in fact.
We've talked about existing laws, but I think what I haven't gotten enough information about is the effectiveness, or the ineffectiveness, of the municipal and provincial declarations of emergency.
In your assessment or in your deliberations on invoking the Emergencies Act, was it determined that the emergency orders issued by the City of Ottawa and the Province of Ontario had been ineffective?
7:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
They were in effect. Yes.
7:45 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
In terms of what was made available, I particularly feel like the province got let off the hook on this one. When you were doing your assessments, what areas did the provincial emergency act fall short in? It's something that I haven't fully contemplated. What was the difference there?
7:45 p.m.
Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada, Department of Justice
What we looked at, when we looked at the Ontario emergency and the city's emergency and the injunctions, was that we didn't look at what just Ontario was doing. We were looking at what was happening across the country in every province. Some other provinces took measures under their emergency acts. In New Brunswick, for example, they took some measures under their emergency act—