Electoral Reform Committee on Aug. 29th, 2016

[Prof. Yasmin Dawood]

As a lot—

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Go ahead.

[Prof. Yasmin Dawood]

I think the problem isn't so much that people who are participating in a referendum have made the wrong decision. It's more that...what the research seems to show in a number of studies is that there isn't sufficient education or money put into educating people in terms of what is at stake in a referendum. Given that fact, people often tend to favour the status quo.

If you had an ideal circumstance in which you had months of education for every single citizen and you had the infrastructure and the resources to make sure every single person was fully educated—and this might take a year to roll out—then in that case, it wouldn't necessarily be always favouring the status quo. People wouldn't necessarily make that decision. Unfortunately, that's not how most referendums are organized. There's usually very little information. All the debate of this committee has occurred over the summer, which tends to be a dead time in terms of people paying attention to politics, and whatever insights have been gained at this committee aren't necessarily seeping through to Canadians.

There are a lot of issues around education and access that make a referendum, to my mind, not necessary and not required.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Your time is up, Mr. Rayes.

[Alain Rayes, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Dawood.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We will go to Ms. Romanado to end the second and last round.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding some of your recommendations.

In an MMP system we would have a local-level MP who was voted in directly by the constituents—and, Mr. Broadbent, you mentioned there could perhaps be a preferential vote for that specific position—and then there would be the regional MP.

I'd like to get a sense of what this would look like in terms of implementation. For instance, would it require redrawing electoral districts? Would it require increasing the number of MPs or decreasing the number of MPs? I'm not sure about how it would be played out and about the complexity of doing it.

Could I have the expertise of both of you on what it would look like?

[Ed Broadbent]

First of all, I think it could exist without changing the boundaries, but I don't think that would be preferable. I think that some modification in the boundaries for individual MPs would probably be desirable, but not necessary.

Then you have the regional component. It depends on the split, as mentioned earlier. If you have a 60:40 split between MPs and the regional representation, that could lead to one kind of size recommended for ridings, as distinct from having a 50:50 split. This could result in different-sized constituencies.

It is complex in terms of getting it established and sorting it out. When the committee sits down and looks at some options, to be banal and state the obvious, you should consult with some technical staff people who could guide you. If you agree on certain principles, such as MMP, then look at the variables within that system and what they would imply for constituency size and so on.

I hope that answer helps.

[Jean-Pierre Charbonneau]

I would suggest that the committee members read the report of Quebec's chief electoral officer from December 2007 regarding a compensatory mixed system. This report includes a summary which I have here in front of me. You should have the official document. This report will provide a lot of answers to the technical questions you are asking.

In Quebec, if we had followed the chief electoral officer's advice and the terms of the draft bill, instead of having 125 ridings in which a member was elected in a first past the post system, we would have had 75 or 77 such ridings and 50 regional ridings. There would have been 50 regional representatives. Instead of having a single list for the whole province, we could have had between 12 and 15 regional ridings. That means that, in certain regional ridings, the list could have been longer, depending on riding size. We could also have tried to balance the 12 or 15 regional ridings to give more or less the same weight to voters and to the regions.

So there are different types of mixed compensatory systems, as Quebec's chief electoral officer stated. In other words, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Academics and officials in Canada, including the Chief Electoral Officer, have devoted a lot of study to these issues. The Chief Electoral Officer produced a substantial report after a year of non-partisan study of the issue. You should draw on that, especially if you might develop a compromise or consensus based on that model.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Mr. Charbonneau, you said earlier than from the time a member is elected they do the job. So there is no difference between regional and other representatives.

I was elected with 35% of the vote in Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, but I swear that I still work for 100% of constituents.

[Jean-Pierre Charbonneau]

Of course.

For my part, I have been fortunate to have been elected six times with an absolute majority. Once or twice, I got just 48% or 49% of the votes and I was frustrated, because I would have liked an absolute majority.

We have to be careful though. Based on the rationale of an absolute majority, we could support two-round voting or a preferential ballot. In my opinion, the key is fairly representing the electorate and their opinions in Parliament, which is where the debates take place and the political choices are made. That is essential.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much. We will finish on that note.

I would like to thank the witnesses.

Ms. Dawood, your insights and research have been very helpful, especially as regards legitimacy.

It has been a great pleasure to welcome two well-known Canadian politicians who have shared their experiences and wisdom.

Thank you for making yourselves available in August.

The committee will suspend the sitting for five minutes. We will then go in camera to discuss certain aspects of the committee's work.

[Jean-Pierre Charbonneau]

Thank you for inviting me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Goodbye and have a nice day.

[Proceedings continue in camera.]