Evidence of meeting #30 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was yukon.
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I think on the voting side, instead of putting an X, you rank your candidates one, two, three, four, five, six or whatever.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
John Aldag Liberal Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Call it a day, go home, turn on the TV, and wait for the results.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
John Aldag Liberal Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Some of the systems we've heard about will address some different issues. We've been told that various forms of proportional representation may increase women's participation, or under-representation of other groups, such as visible minorities or aboriginal and indigenous populations. It's not always by a huge amount. Sometimes it's by one or two percentage points.
Does this system deal with those types of member issues?
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
No, it doesn't. It's just dealing with voting members, but if votes start to count—we're already seeing a lot more women involved now—I think it will be better.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
John Aldag Liberal Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Okay. If you've done any analysis, do you get a sense of whether this would lead to the continuation of majority governments, or—
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
John Aldag Liberal Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
It would be minority coalition governments, so that would be a decision—
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I don't even like coalition governments, because the coalition then has to vote together. It's just like a majority government, to me. What I'd like to see is that we end with a minority government. Everybody is represented. I know that I would, like most people, rather go to someone I elected than someone I didn't elect, which happens now for half the people.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you.
This has been a very interesting discussion. I think we all really appreciated the informality of it. I think we can call it that. There was a lot of room for a back-and-forth.
Mr. Brekke, we all appreciated the mental math exercises you gave us, or at least I did.
Mr. Streicker, we appreciated your passion for democratic diversity, your obvious love of democracy and of this country, and your passion for unity through diversity.
Thank you so much for contributing to this discussion. It's all recorded. The analysts are taking notes, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see some quotes from this session in the report at some point.
Thank you very much. We'll suspend for a couple of minutes before we go to our open-mike session with members of the community who are gathered here this afternoon, but again, thank you. We appreciate your interest in making this country's electoral system better.
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I'd like to thank all of you for hearing us out. We really appreciate it.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We'll proceed to the open-mike section of the meeting.
I'll just explain a little context. As you know, this whole exercise and this committee exists because there was a commitment in the last election campaign on the part of the governing party to look at reforming the electoral system. A committee was created to go across the country to take testimony and take testimony in Ottawa from experts and stakeholders. That's why we're here today.
The open-mike format is an important means of allowing us to gain feedback from citizens everywhere we travel about what they think of the present system and how they might like it to change. The format for this section is that each person will get two minutes at the mike. I always say to the audience, look, don't worry, give it to us straight. We don't need any preambles to soften the blow. We can handle it.
5:05 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
The more direct and hard-hitting you can be, the better.
We'll start with Mr. Duane Andrew Aucoin. Perhaps Mr. Jimmy Burisenko would take the other mike. After Mr. Aucoin is done, Mr. Burisenko can speak. We'll keep going like that.
Go ahead, Mr. Aucoin, for two minutes, please.
5:05 p.m.
Duane Aucoin As an Individual
[Witness speaks in native language]. It's good to see all of you. I'd like to thank the Ta'an Kwäch'än, whose land we're on today. I thank all of you who are here.
I just wanted to say, as a member of Teslin Tlingit Council, that I'm not speaking on behalf of Teslin Tlingit Council. I'm speaking as a citizen. We're a self-governing first nation. We're one of the first peoples who were here. We were here before the Yukon. We were here before there was a Canada. We had our own system of governance. We had our own system of democracy. Let's not forget the original governments that were here before. My dad's people emigrated here from France in 1640. Before all the Europe people came here, there were governments that were here before.
In my community we consist of five clans. All of the clans are equal, no matter how large or small the clans are, and we operate by consensus. It's a more difficult way of governance. It's a slower way of governance at times, but it's a better way of governance because everyone's voice has to be heard. It's not compromise. I don't like to use the word “compromise”. It's collaboration that exists between the five clans for us to come to a common agreement on what's best for our people. It's not just for my clan when I'm sitting there, and it's not the other representatives who are there representing their clans, but it's what's best for us all.
Whatever system you choose, please put away the partisan politics and ask what's best for Canada.
I just got back from Ottawa and I think I'm sick. I brought back a sickness from there—or it's an allergic reaction to partisan politics.
5:05 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
As one of the first peoples of this land, I would give you one piece of advice: please put something forward that's best for everyone and best for the people.
Gunalchéesh. Merci. Thank you.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
That's an eloquent statement reminding us of the history of this country, and how there are different methods of making decisions at the governing level.
Would Ms. Linda Marie Leon come to mike number one, and then we'll ask Burisenko to speak for two minutes, please.
Mr. Burisenko, go ahead.
5:05 p.m.
Jimmy Burisenko As an Individual
Hello, and thank you very much for hearing me.
I want to thank our government too for responding to the call by so many Canadians on the need for electoral reform. So many Canadians have come to see that there's a tremendous problem with the system that we're presently using, the first-past-the-post system.
That is precisely the way I see it. I think I speak for quite a few Canadians that the false majority it creates, when we concentrate power to parties on a minority of votes and give them total power, really brings into question the democratic character of our political institutions. When we grant this total power to a party on a minority of votes, it makes election promises seem to fall by the wayside and the will of the people seems to get ignored. Parties can too often run away with their own agendas. I think this is a problem that so many people see.
Another problem that compounds it is that an effective opposition is very essential, and that seems to be thrown out the window. I think that leads to the framework wherein our parliamentary systems have become so rancorous and argumentative. I think it's precisely because of that problem. One party has all the power, and they don't have to compromise anymore. Opposition parties that are actually representing a majority of the electorate in our multi-party system are ignored and a party can run away with their own agendas. I think this is a big problem that so many Canadians have come to see.
When we grant parties a system where the percentage of the seats represents the percentage of popular vote that they attained, then they have representation. Yes, we're human beings and we get argumentative and whatnot, but when parties see that they have a goal, an agenda, a means of accomplishing a goal, it leads to co-operation. That's a very important thing. Even if a party only has 8% or something like that, then they have some influence on the outcome, albeit kind of small, but they do have some means of affecting policy. I think this has been proven in systems that use proportional representation, that they do produce more policy in the end.
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
I'd like to give you quick examples of that. In Scotland and New Zealand, the last couple of countries that went to proportional representative systems, there were reports done.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Actually, it was almost three minutes.
But I must say that you've made your point about—