Electoral Reform Committee on Sept. 26th, 2016

[John McKinnon]

The 75% turnout in our federal election, and 75% consistently through our territorial elections, runs across all age groups. That runs across my age group, down to the middle-aged, to the first nations, to the young people in the Yukon. I don't know what we're doing, but we're definitely doing something right in getting our young people interested in elections.

I know that in just the last campaign, I can tell you that all of the federal parties had a youth group that was incredibly active in their organization. I can tell you that in any territorial election that I ran in, I always had a strong youth group following, and it's reflected in the percentage turnouts in territorial and federal elections in the Yukon.

[Matt DeCourcey, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

It must speak in some way to the proximity that the electors have to their elected officials here, that they feel that close local representation. If you do figure out what you're doing right before October 7, please do submit it in a brief no longer than 3,000 words. Thank you very much.

[John McKinnon]

Thank you. We were so close that the nearest I could come was the Prince Edward Island constituencies, which were small, and the people knew their member. The elections were fun, because everybody knew everybody who was running.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

We'll go now to Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the committee, ladies and gentlemen.

I would like to extend a special hello to Élaine Michaud, the former member for Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, the riding next to mine. I think the last time we saw each other was at a debate at CHOI-FM almost a year ago. When I was in the provincial government, she was my joint MP, if you will, at the federal level. A third of my provincial riding was in her federal riding.

I always thought to myself that I could never be the member for Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, because it was way too big of a riding. It covers nearly 75 kilometres, running along the St. Lawrence all the way up to L'Étape. It's crazy. I thought it was an enormous riding until I came here, to Yukon, of course.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to address Mr. McKinnon.

I want to pay my respects to you, sir, for what you have done for your country, especially here for your territory and for your land. I deeply appreciate what you have done. We all remember that 11 years ago, in 2005, you were the senior adviser of an electoral reform committee, tabled by your government at that time, and you published a report in 2005.

First of all, what can we learn from from your experience 10 years ago that we can put to advantage today in this committee?

[John McKinnon]

It was so much easier looking at trying to change a territorial or provincial system than a federal one, because once you get into the federal one, you get into all of the problems that we've been talking about tonight, with the large rural...your riding, for goodness' sake.

For the provinces and territories, I suggested that you could, if you really wanted to, do the type of thing, that hybrid system, that you're talking about. I didn't recommend it; I just said that it was possible that it could be done in the Whitehorse ridings, which are still only about 1,000 electors in the largest of the Whitehorse ridings, going to several hundred electors in the Vuntut Gwitchin riding of Old Crow. You could possibly start combining Whitehorse ridings for a small proportionality type of election.

I had the ability, as you have had, of talking to all of the experts who came before the B.C. citizens' assembly, and all of them indicated that the most difficult problem that anybody could face was the large ridings with small populations. None of them, from David Farrell down to.... I forget the names of some of the others, but none of them had the answer to how it could really be done.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

But in this report tabled in 2005, on page 3 it says:

I would recommend first that a plebiscite be held at the next Territorial Election on the question of whether or not the public was in favour of the formation of a Citizens’ Assembly to discuss the question of Electoral Reform.

Am I right saying that “plebiscite” means referendum?

[John McKinnon]

Yes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

So you suggested a referendum.

[John McKinnon]

I'm sorry, can you read that again?

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Did you suggest a referendum in 2005?

[John McKinnon]

No, I didn't. I thought I suggested against a referendum.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Why?

[John McKinnon]

Because at that time, I think I had talked to every one of the members who were going around at election time and asked them whether electoral reform was a burning issue on the doorsteps of Yukon people. Without exception—there was a debate in our legislature on electoral reform—and all of the leaders of all of the parties got up and said it just was not a burning issue.

So the leaders of all the parties said it wasn't a burning issue in 2005. The members who were going around door to door, the people who were trying to get elected, said it was not a burning issue at the doorstep. I said it was not a burning issue at the time, that there didn't have to be a referendum at the time, but that probably sometime in the future it would become an issue.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

It was because it was not an issue at that time.

[John McKinnon]

Yes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

It was not a burning issue. If it were a burning issue, you would call a referendum.

[John McKinnon]

Yes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

That's what I was thinking.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Ms. Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. McKinnon, since we're going down this path anyway, having all your experience of working on electoral reform, what would you like this committee to come away with, knowing the nuances that we're dealing with and the differences in rural and urban areas? What would be your recommendation?

[John McKinnon]

I don't have the answer. I don't know whether the majority of Canadians feel they want a proportional system of government.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

You don't know—

[John McKinnon]

I don't know whether they do. I know at the time I wrote my report that Yukoners did not consider electoral reform a burning issue. As to whether they do during this election that's coming up, I've asked some of my friends who are going to run to let me know whether it is a burning issue at the door.

I would advise them not to raise the question of electoral reform at the door, but if I were a member of the Fair Vote committee, I would keep anybody who knocked at my door there for the rest of the night asking them about STV and about MMPs. I think that would be the only door they would be able to hit that evening.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

What would your gut say about it? You obviously are very connected with your community here. I know that you haven't done a survey, perhaps, but what would your gut say at this time? Do you think this is a burning issue here in the Yukon?