Electoral Reform Committee on Sept. 26th, 2016

[Jimmy Burisenko]

I just want to say that our democracy is a very precious inheritance and it's very hard won. When we see the problem with it, it's our duty to do something about it. I hope that's what's happening here.

The time for change is now, folks. Thank you.

I have more to say, but [Inaudible--Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

I should mention that you can also go to the committee website. There's an electronic questionnaire, a very good one. You can also submit written comments as long as they fall within the 3,000-word limit. So there are many other ways to participate.

I would ask Mr. Drischler to come to mike number two.

Ms. Leon, please give us your viewpoint.

[Linda Leon, As an Individual]

Hello.

I'd just like to say that I'm strongly in favour of electoral reform. I don't know how that's going to work. I'm believing that we may have to go to the Swiss system, where we have different systems for different regions, because we are a complex and very big country.

Mostly I want to address the issue of a referendum. Slightly more than 68% of electors in the last election voted for parties that had electoral reform as part of their platform. It is legitimate, and to say otherwise is disingenuous. For the problem with a referendum, we only have to see the example of Brexit where fearmongering and lying made people vote against their own best interests.

The only time I'd ever want to see a first-past-the-post system in place is where it's a yes-or-no situation. I'd like to congratulate Dave Brekke for suggesting that the referendum happen after we've tried it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Could Mr. Yuuri Daiku come to mike number one?

Mr. Drischler, it's your turn.

[William Drischler, As an Individual]

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

Very briefly, I would like to speak to the desirability of proportional representation. Globally, democracy has a real problem. Voting participation is falling nearly everywhere, yet we've seen in the last two German provincial elections that voter participation has gone up more than 10%. This is very impressive. There is a new national populist party that's claiming all the credit. This is extremely dramatic proof that proportional representation has great potential for democratizing, and I hope the committee will keep this in mind.

Second, I'd like to address the specific problem of Yukon in proportional representation we've discussed today. I would like to suggest that the number of seats in Parliament from the Yukon is a red herring. It would be anti-democratic for a population this low to have much more influence than those who live in a riding in southern Ontario with 100,000 voters, but that doesn't mean proportional representation isn't very important to the Yukon. It is.

With proportional representation, overall quality of federal legislation should skyrocket, because it will mean enhanced participation that will improve policy nationally. The general animation of democracy should bring special benefits to the Yukon—for example, greater sensitivity to first nations concerns. A lot of economists have said, when they're discussing growth, that a rising tide floats all boats. That may or may not be true, but when it comes to democracy, more democracy solves problems across the board. That's why I would like to see a proportional representation system adopted.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

I'll call Ms. Corliss Rae Burke to mike number two.

Mr. Daiku, it's your turn.

[Yuuri Daiku, As an Individual]

Thank you very much.

I'll follow your suggestion to keep it brief: no Internet voting, and I'll tell you why. Data are routed outside of the country. We have already a situation right now where privacy and security of data are not guaranteed. It's not simple. It's not immediate. It's not transparent. It's open to all sorts of fraud, attack, and even denial of service.

So whatever you decide, since I only have two minutes today to tell you, please leave this out. Go back to the very simple, immediate, human side of solving problems. Somebody can't get to the voting booth? Pay for a taxi. Don't pay for expensive machines; pay for a taxi. Somebody needs a mail-in vote? Create a system where you have a mail-in vote with two envelopes. The inner one is confidential, and the outer one gets a return card to say it has been received. There are simple solutions, one by one.

No Internet, please. I know this because I too have been following what we heard today and I work in IT. I know what I'm talking about.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Gordon Wayne Gilgan, please take mike number one.

Ms. Burke, it's your turn.

[Corliss Burke, As an Individual]

Thank you to the members of the committee for taking the time and putting in the effort and energy that you are putting into this process. I know it's exhausting, and it's probably one of the most important things that we as Canadians will address.

I also will keep my comments very general instead of addressing any particular model. I have lived in quite a few jurisdictions in Canada, and I've voted in every municipal, provincial, territorial, and federal election since I've been of voting age. I'm concerned that in the first-past-the-post system of voting, my vote has not counted. It has not counted because the governments formed have often been false majority governments. The number of seats elected in majority government often far exceeds the proportion of the popular vote. The parties I've voted for have rarely been in the majority, and have been under-represented in Parliament.

We can see in the campaign that's going on in the United States right now how destructive it is to have only two parties who exchange control of the government every few years.

I would like to have a voting system that would give every voter and every vote an equal voice in our Parliament. I believe that the proportional representation system would provide the voice that I want. A party that receives 5% of the votes in the country should have 5% of the seats in Parliament. A party that receives 40% of the vote should never have a majority of the seats. Please recommend to Parliament that Canada adopt a proportional representation system of voting.

Also, I am not in favour of having a referendum on this issue. There was a referendum last October, in essence, when over 60% of Canadian voters supported the Liberals, NDP, or Greens, all of whom had electoral reform as a key component of their platform.

Thank you for coming to Whitehorse to hear our concerns, and thank you very much for this opportunity to participate in our democratic process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Charles Stuart Clark can go to mike number two, and we will give mike number one over to Mr. Gilgan for two minutes, please.

[Gordon Gilgan, As an Individual]

Thank you for the opportunity to present my views on electoral reform.

I voted in every election since I reached voting age, and that is many years ago now. I voted in federal, provincial, territorial, and municipal elections, because I learned from my parents that democracy was important and needed my support. Over the years, a lot of my votes didn't count. The governments were formed by parties that did not have a majority of votes, but often had a majority of the seats. Many of these governments were not very effective, because their view was often very narrow.

In the last federal election, I voted strategically. I voted for a party I did not support in order to get rid of a party that was destroying our country. I did not like strategic voting. I would prefer to know that my vote would give me a voice in Parliament, no matter how small that voice was.

I support proportional representation. I believe it will enable every voter in Canada to have a voice in Parliament. The diversity of Canada will be better represented when every voice is heard. Proportional representation will also present an opportunity for issues to be raised and properly debated in federal elections, instead of phoney issues such as wearing a niqab or which party spends the most of the taxpayers' money.

I urge the committee to keep the promise that three out of the four parties made in the last election: that 2015 would be the last of the first-past-the-post elections. I recognize your task is a difficult one, but I ask each member of the committee to set aside the party's interests and support a system of proportional representation that will allow all Canadians to cast votes that count.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Mary Ann Lewis can come to mike number one, and now Mr. Charles Stuart Clark can share his views with us.

Go ahead, sir.

[Charles Clark, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I really want to say to all of you around the table that I can only imagine how gruelling this whole process is, but I also want to say how extremely important it is.

I spent the largest piece of my working life in various developing countries and saw the struggles of governance in those countries. I always thought our system was bulletproof, until I started to see what was happening in some of the European countries. I realized that the strength and credibility of liberal democratic systems is really very much in question in many parts of the world, not here—yet—but I think it is extremely important that we address the question of citizens' participation and, as a part of that, citizens' sense of agency. Many young people I spoke to prior to the last federal election said, “Oh, I am not going to vote; it doesn't make any difference.” We have a real challenge to convince those people that their vote does make a difference.

For that reason, I put emphasis on two of the five values you identified: first, proportional representation, so that there is a sense of citizen agency; and second, local representation, so that we know who at least one of our voices is. Putting these two things together I think adds up to a multi-member proportional system, of which there are clearly many variations. I encourage you to look carefully at that and to offer real hope that we will have a wider citizen participation in the future.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Would Mr. Robert Lewis like to come up to mike number two?

Ms. Mary Ann Lewis now has the floor.

[Mary Ann Lewis, As an Individual]

I'd like to begin by thanking you for coming. I don't ever remember a group of federal politicians from various parties, including all parties, coming, sitting, talking, being willing to listen, and then to go away and work together to come up with an answer to problems that people are having and that people have expressed. I think it's a first, and it's wonderful.

I'd also like you to take back a thank you to Maryam Monsef, who was here in this very room with a large group of people. She used great skill, she spent a lot of time with individuals, she was non-political, and she encouraged us to learn more about how the voting system works and the ways that we could affect it. She was wonderful and very warm. People warmed up to her, learned, and carried on. We have carried on talking since, and trying to learn. The actual learning falls a little short, which you will hear when I'm explaining what I would like.

I would like first past the post changed. I would like some type of proportional representation. I am not sure what will work best—you have greater minds than I do—but I would like you to work on it together and to come out with a solution that would allow most people to be represented.

As to the referendum, we absolutely don't need one. Why put the money, the effort, the time into that? We had a referendum at the election, and we all voted to give Justin Trudeau a majority government. Some people ran to the Liberals, other people ran away from something else, but together we gave Justin Trudeau a majority so that he could act. We would like you to go back with that majority and work together to come up with a solution that works for all Canadians.

Changing the voting system creates greater choice for more Canadians, creates greater options towards a better quality of life for all, ultimately our children and grandchildren. Why are we doing this? It's because we care. We love Canada, we love our families, we love our children, and we want them to have a future that's safe, that's productive, and that gives them a life they can value.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

[Mary Ann Lewis]

I just want to say that for that to carry on, you need to deal with climate change, because that will sabotage. I would like a group like this to look at that, please.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you very much.

Sarah Wright, please come up to mike one.

Mr. Robert Lewis, please go ahead.

[Robert Lewis, As an Individual]

Thank you.

I'm not going to be as long as Mary Ann. We have very similar values.

If you leave here with one thought, it's this: please get rid of first past the post. We need proportional representation. In the Yukon, where we're only electing one member, I think that person should be elected by at least 50%-plus of the electorate, even if it means having a runoff election.

Most people need to feel that their member has been elected by a majority. We're looking for strong leadership, so we're looking at you folks. We don't want a referendum on this. We want you to evaluate everything you hear across the country and come out with the best system for Canada.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Mr. Jean-François Des Lauriers, please come to mike two.

Ms. Wright, go ahead, please.

[Sarah Wright, As an Individual]

Thank you.

I am a member of the Fair Vote Yukon group with Dave Brekke and a handful of other people. We've been working hard to get you guys here. Thanks for coming.

You were asking us how to engage the Canadian people in this process. It's though education. We have had two democracy salons in this territory in the past trying to get educated about the options.

I was in Parliament last week as well. I saw Larry, and I was on a plane with Duane when he was coming back. I heard leaders in my country still questioning whether first past the post is good or not. I heard a gentlemen here say that it's been here for 140 years, and it's worked; it's good. I haven't had the vote, as a woman, for 140 years. It's been good for white guys, but it hasn't been good for the rest of us, okay? Let's just get that out there. Let's educate ourselves. This is an opportunity for us to evolve as a country, and it involves education.

This piece of paper is not education. Most people would look at this piece of paper and go, “What?” We need a more interactive multimedia approach to this particular silo that you are in. We need to have creative, web-interactive, YouTube-friendly films showing. Use Lego. Do something to engage us in workshops to try these different systems out. Let's hear from other people in other countries. At one of our salons, we had a woman from Switzerland, who lives here now. She described the voting system in Switzerland. Let's learn. It's been done in other places. Canadians don't need a dumbed-down electoral system. We are intelligent. We know what we're doing.

The last thing—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

One more point, please.

[Sarah Wright]

We need to work together, because it's about consensus. Our Parliament has to represent everybody, not just the guys who got one vote more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thanks so much.

Monsieur Des Lauriers.

[Jean-François Des Lauriers, As an Individual]

Could I get a signal when I have thirty seconds left?