I'm sorry, it would be a first past the post?
Evidence of meeting #32 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was votes.
Evidence of meeting #32 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was votes.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
3:40 p.m.
Vice President, Public Affairs, Insights West, As an Individual
Nobody would have a majority. We would be having the same complicated discussions if we don't have a clear decision between yes and no.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
I should have been clear. The way I understand it's being done in P.E.I. is you actually rank the ballot. It's a preferential selection among.... It's not choose one or the other. You're right, because then you could get nothing with the majority. Maybe it's not a fair question to ask you. It's simply an alternative that's been tried and I wanted your feedback on what you thought of that.
3:40 p.m.
Vice President, Public Affairs, Insights West, As an Individual
I think it really depends on the size of the exercise. In a place like P.E.I. it would probably work in a fairly simple manner. It would be easier to explain depending on how the situation goes as far as the actual promotion of what is at stake here goes, which is something that, quite frankly, we didn't have in B.C. for the last two STV referendums.
Doing it in a Canada-wide manner would definitely require a lot of information and a lot of discussions about what is at stake. I think that stands for anything that we try to do in the future as far as changing the system is concerned. If anything, the way Canadians feel about this really stands out as they may not have been following the issue too closely at this stage, but also they are definitely as informed about the options that are in front of them as most of us who are sitting in this room.
3:40 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
All right.
I think I'm out of time, so thank you very much.
3:40 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you to our witnesses and the audience members who have joined us here this afternoon.
I'll start with you, Mr. Canseco. Bienvenido, es muy interesante todas sus cosas, y yo sé que. Our interpreters can handle that.
I wonder if you've noticed a similarity between support for proportional systems among younger voters and people from the west. Let me ask this first, and then I'll draw an inference. Why do you think that is?
3:40 p.m.
Vice President, Public Affairs, Insights West, As an Individual
I think there are two reasons behind it. One of them is definitely the fact that younger voters tend to gravitate towards parties that have not formed a government in the past. I think we've seen it in some of the federal elections, provincial elections, that I've covered. The 18-to-34 vote tends to gravitate towards parties that are not necessarily the Liberal Party at the federal stage, the Conservative Party at the federal stage, and there seems to be this tendency, especially for people who are new to democracy and are voting for the first or second time—
3:45 p.m.
Vice President, Public Affairs, Insights West, As an Individual
—that they've lost the election, that they voted for a candidate who finished in third, fourth, or fifth place. It tends to happen more here. We've had a lot of discussions about electoral reform. We had a couple of referenda provincially that didn't reach the threshold that was established. We have been talking about this for longer, I would say, than many other Canadian provinces or regions.
3:45 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
That longer conversation just for the west coast....
I've been looking at the results of a Manitoba election—I'm sure you've looked at it as well—asking voters why they don't vote. It was in the non-voting category, and it was expressed by many that they felt their vote didn't count, that they lived in a riding that had a known outcome. “I live in such-and-such riding. It doesn't matter if I vote.” We hear that expressed when surveying young people on why they don't participate: “because it doesn't matter”. It's a natural human thing. Why participate in something if you have no effect on the thing?
I guess I'm inferring some alignment, also, not just with the familiarity of the conversation on the west coast, but that feeling of the alienation Mr. Moscrop talked about a little earlier. We saw this in our last election, with voters still going to the polls in B.C. hearing results from Atlantic Canada, and almost a decisive result. A lot of people say, “Why bother if my vote doesn't matter?” Votes should always matter.
The support for proportionality seems to move that way in that if I can find a system where my vote is guaranteed to matter regardless of my age or where I happen to live in the country, then I'm going to support it. Am I stretching too far here?
3:45 p.m.
Vice President, Public Affairs, Insights West, As an Individual
No, it's a fair way to analyze it. It happens mostly with voters who are age 18 to 34, more than anything because they're new to the system and they're trying to figure out what is going on and they're motivated. Maybe they're actually participating in a campaign, volunteering, donating their time or their money, and they find out that the representation they would probably like to have is not going to take place after the election.
3:45 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Mr. Kam, just looking through your notes, I don't know if you land on a preferred type of voting system, if you go between the proportional or the current system at all. Do you express a preference?
3:45 p.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Political Science, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
No.
3:45 p.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Political Science, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
No, I'm choosing among flawed alternatives. I think the trade-offs between them is almost perfect. So what I get from one I lose from another and....
3:45 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Okay.
So the mandate of this committee is to come up with something among these imperfections.
Here's my intuitive challenge. Mr. Jewell, I know you don't want to call it weighted, but it's the only way I can think of it. MPs who are casting their vote in the House based on your system would have a different impact, would have different significance on the outcome of any vote in Parliament. Is that correct?
3:45 p.m.
Patrick Jewell
That is correct, but I would like to explain that. The party vote is exactly what it should be.
3:45 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Right. The final result is that if the Conservatives get 20% of the vote, they contribute to 20% of the vote.
3:45 p.m.
Patrick Jewell
Let me retranslate my answer to your question.
If your party is under-represented, your weighted vote will be greater than one, as it were. If your party is overrepresented, it will be less than one, but it will rectify the distortion.
3:45 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I'll just give you my impressions of that. I imagine that voters represented by people who have a greater weight to their MP's casting ballot will feel empowered, yet voters who have an MP representing them who's at 0.7 of a vote will not feel as great.
I know the goal you're aiming at. At an intuitive level, I could imagine people standing in the House of Commons and I could imagine voters saying, “You're my MP. I want you to vote this way.” Elizabeth has 12 votes, I have 0.75 votes, and yet we're still members of Parliament. It feels odd, I guess.
3:45 p.m.
Patrick Jewell
I'm glad you've challenged this aspect of it, but I'm pleased to respond to it, as well.
The first point you made, two minutes ago, was that people living in a riding where the outcome is a known conclusion have no reason to vote. In this system, every vote counts equally, period, all the time. It solves that problem.
As to what happens in Parliament, you vote one vote. The computer says that you have 1.5 votes, 0.8 votes, or whatever, but you don't see it. You don't need to think about it. The citizen doesn't need to see it or think about it. All they know is that their wishes, as they expressed them in the election through their honest first-place vote, will be honoured with every vote in Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Good afternoon, gentlemen.
I will take this opportunity to display my knowledge of Spanish too.Encantado, señor
Mr. Jewell, one thing I liked in your brief was the possibility of members of Parliament voting remotely. Given that we are in Vancouver right now, we have missed four votes in the last hour. These are the sacrifices we have to make to meet with you, but the pleasure is greater than the cost, you can rest assured.
Mr. Jewell, I will have questions for you in a few minutes, but for the moment, I am going to address you, Mr. Canseco.
You said that the results of your survey will be available this evening, on your website. Can you remind us how many people were consulted? What is your sample?
3:50 p.m.
Vice President, Public Affairs, Insights West, As an Individual
The sample size for the survey was 1,029 Canadian adults. The standard for a nationwide survey in Canada is usually 1,000 Canadians, so this survey was consistent with any other survey we would have conducted on some other topic.
