Evidence of meeting #32 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was votes.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you.
I would ask Hana Kucerova....
Okay, we'll go with Mr. Collins for now.
Derek Collins As an Individual
Thank you, everybody.
For all the people on the committee and all the people in the audience who are still here, first off, I think we're all here because we believe in democracy, and for almost 150 years the best country on earth has enjoyed a working democracy that has largely brought power to the best party that has best appealed to the largest number of Canadians. It's simple, it works, and it has led to effective government.
I know if I'm a member of the Green Party, the Communist Party, the Marijuana Party, the Marxist-Leninist Party, the Pirate Party, the Rhinoceros Party or any one of the 19 federal parties that exist, there are basically two ways that I can change the success of my party. I can either change the rules about how we count your vote, or I can change my platform to appeal to more Canadians. Naturally, I believe that if I want better results, I'll work harder and I'll get those better results. Despite that, we find ourselves here today because our governing party wants to change our electoral system to something they believe is called more fair proportional representation.
We can look to other countries to see how it has worked there. We can suppose what this may look like if we replicate this here in Canada, but the facts are that no one knows. It doesn't matter how much of an expert you are. No one can say with any degree of certainty....
I would just ask everybody on the committee if you wouldn't mind paying attention. If you're on your phone, I find that extremely rude.
As an Individual
I just know to put my phone away if someone is speaking to me.
In all seriousness, though, the facts are no one actually knows how this will transform Canada, what the electoral system will look like here, and I can think of nothing that is more paternalistic and insulting to Canada or to Canadians than to say, “By the way, I believe in democracy, but I don't trust the most democratic tool that's available to us, which is a referendum.”
I believe this is something we should hold near and dear to our hearts. We should listen to Canadians, and if we truly trust democracy, then we should trust the most democratic tool available to us, which is a referendum.
Electoral reform is a low priority item for a majority of Canadians, and it has the potential to change our country for a long time. If you respect the significance of what we're embarking upon, trust in the electorate, as the electorate is never wrong, and then table a referendum.
Liberal
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
If I can reassure Mr. Collins, I have no intention to be rude. I hope this captures what you've said: “Mr. Collins: for 150 years first past the post worked; he thinks we should trust electorate; he wants a referendum.” And I've hashtagged ERRE so people who aren't in the room will know what you said.
I'm trying to be fair and live-tweet to larger numbers of people all the time, and that's why you see me holding my BlackBerry. I apologize.
Liberal
Ivan Filippov As an Individual
My name is Ivan Filippov. I came to Canada with my family 32 years ago. I'm a very proud Canadian and I love this country from the bottom of my heart.
This electoral system, which we have had for 150 years, has survived incredible worldwide events and has served us well. People have been saying that we don't know anything about the future, but we know one thing, that this system which is already in place is strong and will carry us without any doubt into the future.
I am not proposing any referendum at all. For me, this process, which gives me a voice, for which I am grateful, is something I would like to see disappear. I am questioning the motivation of whoever set it up, whether Mr. Trudeau or maybe his adviser, Mr. Butts. It doesn't matter to me, because I understand one thing. Out of the blue, when finally the Liberals have the power, they use it to their advantage. How they will modify the electoral system to their benefit, I don't know, but I know this is the purpose.
I look also at the committee of 12 members. Out of those 12 members, only three are members of the Conservative Party. So when we are talking about proportional representation, how about your committee? I'm very skeptical and I would like to let this process die.
Thank you very much.
Sheldon Starrett As an Individual
I want to thank you all and everyone who came here to speak today.
I had some statements prepared, but actually, I came here to register earlier in the day and then, just after I registered, I found out that my member of Parliament, Mr. Joe Peschisolido, had his electoral town hall meeting today while this meeting was going on here in Vancouver. I just went back to Richmond to participate in that town hall, where only 13 people attended, in a very ethnically diverse riding. That causes some concern for me, because I very much care for the future of our country and where we are going as a country, but I think it's unfair to call this a broad consultative process.
Millions of Canadians are unaware that this committee has been travelling the country seeking their input. Millions of Canadians have not been informed of these town halls and they've been switched. The one today was actually scheduled for eight days ago; it didn't happen, and he just announced it today while this was going on.
I believe it is of paramount importance for all Canadian citizens to participate in how they select their government. They should have a say in how they elect their government and through which system, so it is imperative that a referendum be held to let Canadians make the decision.
Each member of this committee has a duty to the Canadians that elected them to sit as a member of Parliament. When the time comes, it's up to each member to advise the government on how to proceed with changing our electoral process. There is only one truly representative option, and that is to hold a referendum. It is unwise for any government to impose something upon the people or a group thereof, as has been done historically in this country. I'm not saying the system is perfect—far from it—but the only means to effectively change the electoral system is for all Canadians to have a say in it.
This is no trivial matter. It's the very foundation of our democracy, which many men and women have sacrificed their lives for. We must tread carefully without treading upon the democratic process.
Thank you for your time.
Liberal
Meara Brown As an Individual
Hello. Bonjour. My name is Meara Brown. I just want to thank all of the members here today. I realize this is a gruelling experience and I would like to thank you for being here and listening to my thoughts.
As an aside, Mr. Aldag, I'm a member of your constituency, but I have lived in Ms. May's constituency, and I grew up in Nathan Cullen's. I have to say Nathan Cullen's is the best. It's the most beautiful. I'm sorry.
As an Individual
I would also like to thank everyone who has spoken here today. It's given me a lot to consider.
Ultimately, I would like to express my support for proportional representation.
As a millennial, I have felt completely disenfranchised from the federal political system. My generation is known for disengaging from systems we consider broken, and the voting record for my demographic speaks for itself. I have volunteered, talked, cajoled, and argued for getting the vote out on every election since I first had the ability to vote. My peers, especially my west coast peers, all had valid reasons for not participating. We were not represented in the makeup, policies, or rhetoric of the ruling parties. Our concerns were not Ottawa's concerns.
The majority of us self-identify as left of centre, and yet we've never seen an NDP rule or more than two Green Party members in our federal makeup. As a millennial, I want to see issues like crushing student debt, the wage gap still present between men and women, and even paternity leave truly discussed by a government that visibly expresses the celebrated diversity of Canada. As a member of the group of Canadians who has ruled since colonization, I'd be happy to share some of my power and privilege with the rest of my country.
I want a system where 30% of the vote means 30% of the power. I want a government where compromise and discourse is the norm and not the exception. We live in a democracy and majority rules, but majority should not rule absolutely.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you.
That concludes a long, but fruitful and interesting day of hearings here in Vancouver. We had a good diversity of opinion and a lively audience.
I would just mention that there are other opportunities to have input into the process. You can go to the website of the committee. There's an electronic questionnaire. You can submit a brief by October 7, as long as it doesn't exceed 3,000 words.
You can follow the work of the committee through the website. We still have a lot of hearings to hold and work to do. I hope you will all read the report when it comes out. It should come out on December 1.
Thanks very much to all of you, and have a safe drive home.
Sorry, just a second, we have Mr. Reid.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, earlier I mentioned a concern about the non-random nature of the presentations we've been hearing.
To illustrate the point, I chatted with our organizers outside. We have a limit. We simply can't take more than a certain number of people, obviously. We filled up the allotted time, and it's now 10 p.m. We had to have a cut-off, and 17 people were turned away. There was no avoiding it. There's not a lack of professionalism on the part of the excellent people who are working here, and this is not a complaint about the way the meeting is structured.
I simply want to observe that those who arrived earlier all got on the list until we hit the limit. Those who came after a certain point were simply turned away. In practice, an inevitable consequence of this is that those who have had to come from farther away, who had employment that kept them occupied, who had to go pick up a child in day care, or any of these things you can imagine, but who were unavailable earlier on, were the ones who were excluded.
That leads, I think, to one of the problems we face at these meetings, which is that while the people who come here are clearly deeply committed, and believe very much that they're adding to a better vision for the country, they're not an accurate random selection of where the average Canadian is. It's simply a problem we face, and I don't mean any disrespect for those who did come. I admire them for taking the time, but it is an issue for us.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
I'm not going to pretend it's a point of order, but I'm going to try to get it in anyway.
I wanted to reassure everyone, regardless of what your viewpoint is...tonight for the first time of all the meetings we've had across the country, there were a lot of statements that suggest there are decisions that have been made about what this committee can say or can't say. That's not the case. We are 12 MPs around this table from five parties. We're working diligently to listen to everyone. It makes me sad when people think it's a sham process. We're doing our best, and we heard you all, and I want you to know that as you leave this place.
Thank you for coming, and please continue to encourage your friends in Leduc, Yellowknife, Montreal, St. John's, Halifax, Charlottetown, Fredericton—especially Fredericton—and Iqaluit to show up, because this does make a difference, and it is an exercise in democracy.
Thank you very much.
September 28th, 2016 / 10 p.m.
Liberal