Evidence of meeting #34 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Louis Sebert  As an Individual
Dennis Bevington  As an Individual
Andrew Robinson  Alternatives North
Janaki Balakrishnan  As an Individual
Lois Little  Co-Chair, The Council of Canadians-Northwest Territories Chapter
Alexander Lambrecht  President, Northern Territories Federation of Labour
David Wasylciw  Chair, OpenNWT
Tasha Stephenson  As an Individual
Georges Erasmus  As an Individual
Marcelle Marion  As an Individual
Mark Bogan  As an Individual
Karen Hamre  As an Individual
Hermina Joldersma  As an Individual
Maria Pelova  As an Individual
Nancy Vail  As an Individual

5:45 p.m.

Alternatives North

Andrew Robinson

That's an intriguing idea. Again, the Constitution has a lot to say about that, but I don't know exactly what it has to say.

I grew up in Labrador. I've lived many years here in the Northwest Territories, but I also lived in Labrador, and I can tell you that it is very similar. I imagine also in Nunavik in northern Quebec there are a lot of similar things.

I'm intrigued by the possibility of the dual member proportional system because in their proposal they showed a district that was western Canada. That included the Northwest Territories, Yukon, B.C., and Alberta, and if that's possible, then it's also possible to do what our MPs are suggesting and have a larger northern district.

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Ms. Little, do you want to talk about that?

5:45 p.m.

Co-Chair, The Council of Canadians-Northwest Territories Chapter

Lois Little

Yes. There has been a lot of talk in this country about nation-to-nation relationships, and this might offer an opportunity to look at the various treaty areas across the country. We live here in Treaty No. 8. North of us is Treaty No. 11. To the south of us is Treaty No. 7 and Treaty No. 6. There is some room here to have treaty regions of interest, if you like, as a way of breaking out of the geographic box that the NWT border or the Alberta border, or whatever, assigns to us.

I throw that out as a possibility, as a way of actually fulfilling our responsibilities for nation-to-nation....

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

Ms. Balakrishnan, what is your opinion?

5:45 p.m.

As an Individual

Janaki Balakrishnan

In fact, I have been informed by the present MP for NWT that there is already a northern caucus in Parliament and that we are integrated with other northerners, so these things are happening in Parliament. What my representation is expecting is a little more improvement in that so we can have more representation of local representatives. It need not be done by this proportional representation or electoral reform, but as a parliamentary process you can improve it further.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Mr. Deltell, you are at four and a half minutes, but—

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

I previously cut into the time of others. I will skip my turn.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

Thank you.

Ms. Sahota, please.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

I'd like to ask Mr. Robinson or any of the panellists if you could provide a bit more detail. You touched on the different styles of ballots that you have at the municipal level and at the provincial level. You said that you select eight different people who you like. What does that look like? Do you rank them? Could you give a little more detail as to how the different ballots look?

5:50 p.m.

Alternatives North

Andrew Robinson

Sure. At the municipal level, in the City of Yellowknife, councillors all represent the city, so all the people who run for council are on the ballot and you choose up to eight. Strategically what you end up doing is voting only for the ones you're absolutely sure about, because if you vote for one you're not sure about, you might accidentally knock off one that you really like. So sometimes you only vote for three or four or five. The mayor is separate, like a president.

At the territorial level, as some people have explained, it's split into ridings. First past the post, the only difference is that nobody is permitted to list a party name with their name and there are currently no organized territorial parties. Everybody simply represents their electoral region and then they work together to form a minority cabinet that is to pick the premier among themselves. They pick a cabinet. The premier assigns roles and that cabinet and premier operate in a minority position all the time meaning they have to get at least three or four of the opposition, which we call regular MLAs, to join and vote in favour of the budget and vote in favour of all legislation, and if they don't, the regular MLAs get quite upset.

It's an interesting system to watch. They end up with more of a steady flow of policy rather than flipping back and forth as one party gets control over the other.

5:50 p.m.

Co-Chair, The Council of Canadians-Northwest Territories Chapter

Lois Little

I think you've explained it very well, Andrew.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Thank you, that was great.

Essentially what my colleague was saying is winner takes all at the end of the day. Whoever gets one more vote than the opponent wins and takes first past the post in all those systems.

5:50 p.m.

Alternatives North

5:50 p.m.

As an Individual

Janaki Balakrishnan

In that sense, they won't have an opposition as such. The territorial government is based on consensus building. We elect members for different ridings and they all get together, elect a premier, and the premier finds ministers. They do have sometimes, the executive or the ministers, have their own meetings and the MPs have a chair and they discuss all matters. If they have any concerns, they can ask questions, but they do not have an organized opposition as in the parliamentary system, and they do not have a question period for longer periods. Many of them come to an agreement on an issue that is required for the whole NWT, the riding office or particular constituency they agree on. That's why we call it consensus building, not party politics. The party doesn't come into play at all in that, and there's no official opposition.

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

I think that's great. It's fascinating. At some point people gather together once they're elected and strategically figure out a plan, figure out who they're going to vote for to become the premier...is it the premier?

5:50 p.m.

Alternatives North

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Then they form government together. The premier then picks some as cabinet and they form government. It's an interesting system.

What is the voter turnout? I think the minister earlier was referring to...and I can't remember right now what his testimony was. What is the different voter turnout at the municipal and at the territorial level?

5:55 p.m.

Co-Chair, The Council of Canadians-Northwest Territories Chapter

Lois Little

Historically, it's been very low at all levels. There's a whole bunch of reasons why that occurs.

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

What do you think those reasons are?

5:55 p.m.

Co-Chair, The Council of Canadians-Northwest Territories Chapter

Lois Little

I think that, as I said earlier, half our population are people of indigenous ancestry who did not have their right to vote until 1960. That right and the way that people relate to this western style of government is deeply rooted in the way that people live in this territory. That has a huge impact on voter turnout. There is a widespread belief that people are not going to participate in a colonial system. People don't vote territorially. They don't vote federally, and they don't vote—

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

How do we get those people involved? How do we include those people? That's one of the mandates this committee is looking at, inclusivity, and figuring out how we can increase voter turnout, get people to participate in the political process, and hopefully elect people who they would like to see in Parliament. That may have to do with the voting system and it may not. We are tasked with looking at a new voting system but we want to make sure that we find one that does that, and I don't know if picking MMP, or that style over this style, or which style we pick is going to convince those people to come out.

5:55 p.m.

Co-Chair, The Council of Canadians-Northwest Territories Chapter

Lois Little

It's to be able to see their values. They have to be able to see themselves in whatever style of government we have. We have to have legislation that enables people to educate and inform and support people to exercise the right of citizenship. There's no silver bullet to this.

5:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia

We have to move on now.

Ms. Jolibois, please.

5:55 p.m.

NDP

Georgina Jolibois NDP Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Hello, everyone. Thank you for coming. I really appreciate being here.

I come from a riding in northern Saskatchewan. From La Loche to Cumberland House, it takes me 12 hours to drive, and if I'm going to drive to the far north from my home, it will take me 20 hours, so I can appreciate exactly what you're saying.

Here I am, as a member of Parliament. I go to Ottawa and I hear my colleagues say, “We're Canadian”. Yet in reality I don't feel that way, as a northerner, because of the discrepancies and because of the exclusions and because of how even the discussion occurring here.... A Canadian citizen is a Canadian citizen. That's how I see it and that's how northerners see it. So I really appreciate the input that you're providing to validate my thinking and what I experience even in my own riding. Thank you for that. I appreciate it.

I want to clarify about the northern caucus. There is no northern caucus. What we have going is an aboriginal caucus, an association. There are 10 members of Parliament, seven Liberals, one independent, and two NDP. We're trying to come together to form that. So we're working on that collectively.

Nation to nation, northerners, in my riding, and I'm sure Nathan's riding too, and all over the Northwest Territories, we, as aboriginal people, take that to heart. What that means to me is that I am the same citizen in Canada, so I have access to services and programs and to everything else. I'm really interested to hear how, first of all, we validate the 11 languages here in this territory and the other territories and the mid-north of the provinces. I'm really curious about how we could spend more time on that to make sure we engage northerners.

Are there any other suggestions?

5:55 p.m.

As an Individual

Janaki Balakrishnan

First of all, my position is as an individual. I have lived in Ontario. I have lived in British Columbia. I have spent four and a half years in the north. The north has totally a different perspective with respect to the political system that has been practised and the way of living, the culture, the language, and so on. First of all, I cannot speak for northerners. I can only witness what I have seen. That's what I'm doing.

As I have already specified in my presentation, there's a process called duty to consult. For any change, anything that you'd like to make in a territory, we have an obligation to consult exclusively with the people of this land. Only then will we be able to get input that's constructive, so that we can go ahead and make decisions or implement anything. We are stumbling on different questions, and not having anyone to speak on that.