Electoral Reform Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2016

[Kevin Dobie]

It's hard to quantify. It's hard to put into specific terms, but it's a comment we've heard consistently, whether in the west island of Montreal or the lower north shore of Quebec, pockets where you have.... I can only speak first-hand for English official language minorities, but I imagine our colleagues from the FCFA would say the same thing about their communities in Manitoba, New Brunswick, and elsewhere. There's just a really strong connection.

The members of these communities tend to be more or less stationary. We don't see a whole lot of migration in and out. They just feel very strongly about where they are from. Often, these are regional communities.

In Quebec, I think about the Gatineau region or the Eastern Townships where these pockets of English speakers just have generally good connections with their MPs and their MNAs at the provincial level. They want to preserve that.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

To build on that, Madam Loutfi, you had mentioned that young people don't have that connection with their local representative. Why is that? Why does your organization think that young people don't have that connection with MPs?

[Carolyn Loutfi]

We work with disengaged youth. That's really our audience. They are perhaps not being reached by their local representatives and they are not seeking that relationship either. That's a lot of what we hear, and again, part of why our work is needed is that we're going to the places where no one else is going.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Now back to Mr. Dobie and Mr. Thompson, you had mentioned in your presentation the idea of compulsory civics education at the grade 11 level. I'm from Ontario and we have a half-credit civics course at the grade 10 level. I don't want to disparage the provincial education system but it seemed very elementary in terms of the information provided. There's a lot of scrapbooking, as I would call it, rather than actual in-depth analysis. What type of information do you think would be important to have in a civics education course for young people?

This question is for you, Madam Loutfi, as well, if you want to provide input about the high school level.

[Stephen Thompson]

We were careful to couch our recommendation as a partnership between the federal and the provincial and territorial governments. I don't think the federal government is alone in its concern over voter engagement and voter turnout in elections. I think you would have a ready partner there in working with the provinces and territories.

What would be in it? Eugene Forsey's pamphlet, “How Canadians Govern Themselves” could be the foundation. It would be something small and compact that lays out how the federal government works and how the federal system works. You can foresee companion pieces to that for the provincial governments, the municipal governments, and, in our case, certainly in our community and in the francophone minority community, how the linguistic minority school boards work.

You really need to create a culture and inspire a generation to get civically engaged and civically minded, so that they're intimately involved and engaged with the democratic institutions that are available to them.

[Carolyn Loutfi]

I would add that I think it's really important that we help young people build that bridge between government and their everyday lives. A lot of young people don't actually see how government affects them. We need to get better at doing this by talking about issues they care about and actually mapping it out for them and saying, “These are all the ways that you've interacted with your government today.”

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Again, you mentioned in your opening statement that if you're likely to vote in the first two elections, you're more likely to just carry on. Having that proximity to that first opportunity to vote would be important, I would surmise.

[Carolyn Loutfi]

I'm sorry. I didn't follow what the question was.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Having the opportunity to vote in that first election makes you more likely to vote continuously after that, so having the education and the opportunity at the beginning, when you're most likely to first start voting, would be important.

[Carolyn Loutfi]

Exactly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Ms. Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

My first question is going to the QCGN.

You mentioned that you were against mandatory voting. If there were an option to opt out on the ballot such that you would have a protest vote or none of the above, or something like that, would you still be opposed to mandatory voting in that regard?

[Stephen Thompson]

The foundation of our opposition to mandatory voting is that it's the government imposing on the electorate or on its citizens an obligation to do something. If there's a box on a form where you click and say that you're not voting, you're obliged to be there to fill in that box. What right does government have to tell me that I have to go to a place to check a box that says I'm not voting? A right is inherent to a citizen. It belongs to me.

The state can't come in and tell me how I'm going to use that right, how to exercise that right, or even if I should be exercising that right. Where does that stop? We have a number of rights in the charter. Where does it stop? Does it stop with the right to mobility or the right to vote? Where are we going to go next?

Also, in terms of whatever penalty is imposed for my not showing up and checking the little box, who's that really going to affect? Is it going to be a $50 fine? At some point, I heard somebody who was in front of the committee say that maybe it would be a fine of $75, that it wouldn't be very much. Well, $75 isn't a lot to me, but $75 is a lot of money to my daughter, who is 27 years old and living on a very tight budget. Also, it's a lot of money to the homeless people who are living right outside the Delta hotel here.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Some people have been suggesting that we do an incentive-based program, whereby someone gets a tax credit. How would you feel about that?

[Stephen Thompson]

Again, the idea of the incentive program would be good, but in terms of a tax rebate, now you're going to involve people who pay taxes. Not everybody pays taxes, so who are you incentivizing to vote? The people who pay taxes.

In order to create a political culture where Canadians understand that their section 3 rights are connected to an obligation as a citizen to engage themselves, you have to—or we collectively have to, I would argue—instill this values-based understanding of the obligation to vote.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

That's very interesting, and I'm happy for that input.

As a committee, I think a lot of us have been discussing and worrying as well about the outreach that we've been doing and how to engage those who don't vote because what we have been seeing is that most people who come in here are dissatisfied by their history of voting, so they've all been very engaged in the voting process, and we're not reaching out to a lot of people who don't vote.

Ms. Loutfi, you've mentioned that your organization is experienced at doing this, so what advice can you give us as to how we can reach out? I'd hate to put this on the record, but some of us have been discussing a reality TV show. I don't know if any networks would take us up, but it's been hard for us to even get media out to discuss this portion of the committee work. They're very interested in what our outcome is going to be and what the make-up of the committee was going to be, but no one seems to be interested in the whole aspect of the actual consultations and the process of it. How do we get out to those people?

[Carolyn Loutfi]

There are organizations doing this work like us and some others. I think supporting us to actually be able to do this work is one way to do it. There are a few things I would mention about that. We are a youth-led organization and we mean that through and through. I'm 26 and I'm the executive director. So working with organizations that actually represent the communities that you're trying to reach I think is really important, and we also do that with our partners. If we're working in a specific community with a target audience in mind, we partner with an organization of that community. Whether we go to employment centres, whether we go to artisans or music events, wherever it is that we're going, we're actively seeking out environments where we're going to get a diverse and broad group of young people.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Here's another quick thing. Would you also suggest our going into universities on our own? I mean, we're on such a time crunch, and that has been a little bit of our problem. Do you think people would come out, or is it better done through organizations like yourself?

[Carolyn Loutfi]

I think we need all of it. I think if you guys walk into a university, the people who are going to start engaging with you are likely going to be more engaged young people—or not young people, but I do think it's important to go onto university campuses. There are a bunch of organizations that already have home bases there as well, but I would also just highlight, like I mentioned earlier, that I think we're really missing out on young adults who are not pursuing post-secondary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Ms. Sansoucy, you have the floor.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I would first like to acknowledge the people who travelled here this afternoon to come and take part in the work of our committee. I also thank the witnesses who are here with us, and finally, I want to greet my colleagues. I want you to know that it is a pleasure to be briefly among you again, and to express my respect for those of you who will be doing the entire tour, that is to say the full three weeks. I very much admire the fact that you will be visiting so many cities, from one end of the country to the other. The same goes for the members of the team.

My first question is for Ms. Loutfi.

You said, quite rightly, that the level of participation by young people was influenced by many factors. Their participation in the last election was exceptional. You said that that was the exception that proved the rule, which is true in my opinion. The fact that 42% of the electorate did not vote, however, is deplorable.

I respect the fact that your organization has not chosen to speak in support of one type of voting system or another. The purpose of my intervention is not to ask you to do so. However, I would like to take advantage of your presence here and of the fact that your organization's work has made you aware of the various barriers that discourage young people from voting.

We know that the current voting system creates distortions. For instance, a party that garners a minority of the votes can still win a majority of the seats. This type of voting system, as we have seen in the last elections, leads people to vote strategically. You mentioned that to encourage young people to vote, we have to take their aspirations into account. With the current voting system, too many people vote against something rather than for something.

Based on your knowledge of the situation and on the dialogue you have with young people, would you say that those elements of the voting system may constitute barriers?

[Carolyn Loutfi]

Do you mean the fact that people vote against something rather than for something?

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Yes, exactly.

[Carolyn Loutfi]

I think there are several factors. After every election, Elections Canada prepares a report on the obstacles that young people felt were most important. Education is one. A lot of young electors feel they do not have enough information to exercise their right to vote. Yes, there are obstacles involving

logistics, I would say. There are things like actually being free the day of the election, and things like that. I think the reports that Elections Canada has which outline those issues would be the ones to look at in terms of the existing barriers.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

In voting analyses, especially of the vote in Quebec, we hear about francophone ridings, anglophone ridings, and distortions in terms of representation. As we know, the West Island usually has its mind firmly made up, and often before voting day. Do you think the anglophone community feels it is well represented with the current system?